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Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,103 Views)
pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:18 PM
Quote:
 
That doesn't prove SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Adult Gohan. Piccolo said Majin Vegeta was above the Gohan who fought Cell but not by much so the diffrence between MSSJ Goku (Buu arc) to MSSJ Kid Gohan is not that big so SSJ2 Adult Gohan>>SSJ Goku Buu Saga.

I didn't say it proved anything, it's just what I think. I don't try to pass off my opinions as facts ;)

Also seriously why bring up Piccolo's statement again?
I literally just explained this in the very same post you quoted
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical. I am not forcing my opinions as facts but really, I showed all the points to prove he was a SSJ2. It's not my opinion, Thise are statements from the Manga.
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I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
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Quote:
 
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical.


You showed me why SSj2 Goku >>>> SSj2 Kid Gohan is illogical, but I didn't claim SSj2 Goku was much stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
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GridZero
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*Sigh*

Time to channel my inner MoDB and go on a disliking spree.
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pakl123456
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KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:22 PM
I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
Logically after.
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KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:22 PM
I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
He didn't say to gang up on Pui-Pui.

Quote:
 

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P5.2
Kaioshin: “You mustn’t underestimate your opponent! Babidi gathers only strong warriors from everywhere and makes them his allies!”

That's the only strength related quote that Kaioshin makes to Pui-Pui.
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:22 PM
I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
Logically after.
Well honestly Kaioshin doesn't seem like a guy who is going to mess around when the entire universe is in danger. So obviously it would be smarter to gang up and defeat each of Babidis henchmen as a team. No matter how weak they are.

EDIT: Than why is this kid saying he did? Does Kaioshin even ever say they should gang up??
Edited by KingOfAllSaiyans, May 30 2012, 08:29 PM.
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pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
 
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical.


You showed me why SSj2 Goku >>>> SSj2 Kid Gohan is illogical, but I didn't claim SSj2 Goku was much stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan?? He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone" so he basically means they need to gang up on him.
Edited by pakl123456, May 30 2012, 08:30 PM.
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Quote:
 
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan??

Okay I'm going to stop debating with you now. You clearly just ignored the fact I said I think kid Gohan got a rage boost, thus meaning the Kid Gohan we saw wasn't his normal SSj2 power.
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pakl123456
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KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:27 PM
pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:22 PM
I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
Logically after.
Well honestly Kaioshin doesn't seem like a guy who is going to mess around when the entire universe is in danger. So obviously it would be smarter to gang up and defeat each of Babidis henchmen as a team. No matter how weak they are.

EDIT: Than why is this kid saying he did? Does Kaioshin even ever say they should gang up??
He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone?" that means he thinks they need to attack him together besides why would he even bother to gang up if SSJ2 Gohan is way above him? What can Pui Pui do?? Supreme Kai was showm surprised about Base Vegeta's ki. That means Base Veget might be above Kaioshin.
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:29 PM
Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
 
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical.


You showed me why SSj2 Goku >>>> SSj2 Kid Gohan is illogical, but I didn't claim SSj2 Goku was much stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan?? He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone" so he basically means they need to gang up on him.
No he asks Vegeta that because he doesn't know how strong Vegeta really is. At this point he believes Gohan to be the strongest of the three.
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pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:31 PM
Quote:
 
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan??

Okay I'm going to stop debating with you now. You clearly just ignored the fact I said I think kid Gohan got a rage boost, thus meaning the Kid Gohan we saw wasn't his normal SSj2 power.
I never ignored it, I juat never understood your point. Now I do. Okay, but Piccolo told about the Gohan who fought Cell so he probably talked about Gohan's max. Also, I think the rage boots made him achieve his 100% SSJ2 power. So SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan. No one was also surprised when he saw SSJ Goku vs Yakon and only commented he had a huge power when he was burst SSJ2. SSJ2 Adult Gohan>>>SSJ Goku.
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:32 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:27 PM
pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:22 PM
I don't have the manga, but does Kaioshin say to gang up BEFORE Pui Pui comes out, or after?
Logically after.
Well honestly Kaioshin doesn't seem like a guy who is going to mess around when the entire universe is in danger. So obviously it would be smarter to gang up and defeat each of Babidis henchmen as a team. No matter how weak they are.

EDIT: Than why is this kid saying he did? Does Kaioshin even ever say they should gang up??
He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone?" that means he thinks they need to attack him together besides why would he even bother to gang up if SSJ2 Gohan is way above him? What can Pui Pui do?? Supreme Kai was showm surprised about Base Vegeta's ki. That means Base Veget might be above Kaioshin.
Saying "are you going to fight him alone" doesn't necessarily mean that he wants EVERYONE to fight Pui Pui. Just he wants more than just Vegeta, because again he doesn't know how strong he is.
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pakl123456
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KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:34 PM
pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:29 PM
Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
 
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical.


You showed me why SSj2 Goku >>>> SSj2 Kid Gohan is illogical, but I didn't claim SSj2 Goku was much stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan?? He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone" so he basically means they need to gang up on him.
No he asks Vegeta that because he doesn't know how strong Vegeta really is. At this point he believes Gohan to be the strongest of the three.
Nowhere was it said he believed Gohan was the strongest. He told him to not underestimare Babidi's henchmen and they are powerful. Also, when Kaioshin goes he asks fot Goku's jelp. He knew Goku was powerful. If we want to talk about what he told to Kibito so it doesn't matter since he said so since Kibtio said Gohan is mortal and can't pull off the Z sword since the Kais failed so Kibito considered the Kais above Gohan so when Kaiosjin told him he was dead he meant to the fact that the saiyans were overall above the Kais.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:38 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
May 30 2012, 08:34 PM
pakl123456
May 30 2012, 08:29 PM
Teen GohanZ
May 30 2012, 08:23 PM
Quote:
 
You said you thought SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan so I showed yu it's illogical.


You showed me why SSj2 Goku >>>> SSj2 Kid Gohan is illogical, but I didn't claim SSj2 Goku was much stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan.
If SSJ2 Goku is not that much stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan so MSSJ Goku is not that much stronger than MSSJ Kid Gohan/ Are you saying SSJ2 Adult Gohan is not far above MSJ Kid Gohan?? He asked Vegeta "are you going to fight him alone" so he basically means they need to gang up on him.
No he asks Vegeta that because he doesn't know how strong Vegeta really is. At this point he believes Gohan to be the strongest of the three.
Nowhere was it said he believed Gohan was the strongest. He told him to not underestimare Babidi's henchmen and they are powerful. Also, when Kaioshin goes he asks fot Goku's jelp. He knew Goku was powerful. If we want to talk about what he told to Kibito so it doesn't matter since he said so since Kibtio said Gohan is mortal and can't pull off the Z sword since the Kais failed so Kibito considered the Kais above Gohan so when Kaiosjin told him he was dead he meant to the fact that the saiyans were overall above the Kais.
Now I get it.

If Kibit considered the Kais above Gohan

Then that means SSJ2 Gohan at Budokai was weaker than Supreme Kai.

Makes sense :)

[/HEAVYSARCASM]

Put quite simply, you're saying that Kibito thought SSJ2 Gohan at the Budokai was weaker than Kaioshin or Kibito, even though that is very obviously not true, and if you try and argue that, well than I am out of this thread.


Gohan went SSJ2 at will for Kibito at the Budokai. You can't say he did it because he was angry, he was blushing, smiling, and waving panels earlier, and the look of 'anger' was him concentrating for one panel while he transformed. Unless you want to say all of these characters were 'angry' when they transformed:


Mirai Trunks at Freeza (transforming)
Mirai Trunks at Freeza (before transforming)

Trunks is smirking calmly just before transforming, and has to concentrate for a brief moment to transform.

Goku (before transforming)
Goku (transforming)

Just before transforming, he's talking, smiling, and is generally being calm. Just for one panel, he assumes a fierce face in order to concentrate to transform.

Those are some SSJ transformations, how about some SSJ2 transformations?

Vegeta (transforming)

And here we have Vegeta smirking nervously in what is probably seconds before assuming an angry face to concentrate so he can become SSJ2.

And I can't find the scans for Goku going SSJ2 against Fat Boo, but I'm pretty sure you posted it, and it clearly shows Goku smirking without even going mad to go SSJ2. So basically, Gohan doesn't need to be mad to go SSJ2, he's simply concentrating for a brief moment, and he was blushing and smiling and waving panels earlier.

So logically, he would use SSJ2 against Dabra and Fat Boo if he cared for his life or the universe.

Furthermore:

If Goku was really talking about SSJ2 when he was telling Gohan to get angry like he was before, than why wouldn't he just use the already made up term for SSJ2? That is, breaking the super saiyan wall.

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P3.2
Context: before Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan 2
Gohan: “Well then, I’ll become one, just like you want, though I don’t know why…To top it off, should I go so far as to become a Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall?”

Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P10.5
Context: after Goku makes Yakon explode with his Super Saiyan aura
Vegeta: “So that bastard Kakarot has also surpassed that wall…The Super Saiyan wall…

So yeah, this is a bit inconsistent with:

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Instead of Goku just saying, "Just surpass supa saiyan wall like you did at budokai, lawlz".
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 31 2012, 12:15 AM.
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