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Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,107 Views)
Hugga_Bear
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The points have already been made, your wilful refusal to acknowledge them is irrelevant, they're there and they're logical.

To be frank it can go either way, there's reasons to say he's a SSJ and reasons to say he's a SSJ2 (yes there are sit down, questions at the end). To be frank I don't care which one you choose. I think he was a SSJ2 because it's illogical for him not to be, I'll follow logic over a thin argument on art style any day but at the same time I can see why people think he's a SSJ.

Y'know what? It doesn't matter.

What does matter are the perpetual insults, veiled or otherwise. No one is ignoring facts except you Pak. Again I don't care if you want to say Gohan is a SSJ, that's cool and fine and we'll go with that but your consistent refusal to acknowledge that there's even an argument when there clearly is one to be made is just tiresome.

We have the reasons for Gohan being a SSJ and the reasons for him being a SSJ2. Neither are conclusive (please don't, they're really not) so we can choose which we want to believe. I'm with whoever said it before, I think Puccio, that AT didn't care about the transformation, he was just writing the story and Gohan was to be weak.

Can this please end now? We're running in circles and have been from page 1. Pakl you're not right just because you keep saying you are. Nor are you wrong because people disagree with you. Some subjects have no right answer and some are unanswerable until more evidence comes to light, this is one of those and this argument is really getting dull now.
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pakl123456
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Super Vegetto
May 30 2012, 06:10 PM
pakl123456
May 30 2012, 06:03 PM
Super Vegetto
May 30 2012, 05:58 PM
Only thing here is because he thinks that Gohan neads anger to go SSJ2 and that SSJ2 characteristics are important.

I have proof for both which means he simply cant be SSJ in any way. Also Gohans sketch is 2 bangs base and SSJ, 1 bang SSJ2.

So even if he was SSJ ( going by aura ) he cant be because character sketch says diffrent.

And i already proved that Aura depends in how strong person is, weak, injured, emotional, soft.

Its best to go by character sketch to prove something becuse i dont see any other way.
I can't believe people keep ignoring facts. In case you have not realized it yet. Gohan's hair as a SSJ and SSJ2 was the same during the time of the world tourment. You didn't see any evidence for him being a SSJ2. Why wouldn't you show some evidence?? Gohan was not weak or weakened. He was just weaker than he was against Cell. SSJ2 Goten would be weaker than SSJ2 Gohan and I am sure he would have lightening. Gohan was not weakened like Vegeta vs Buu. Emotions and soft have nothing to do with it. Only when you are weakened.
Wrong. His hair is sharper. Lol even anime makes his hair sharper in SSJ2.

SSJ
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SSJ2
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He wasnt weakend. He simply cant control so much power after 7 years. Why you think that he started to loose energy ?
I can't tell if you are serious or just trolling now. AT changed his hair in the world tourment and made it the same as a SSJ and SSJ2. He had one bang in both forms since the world tourment when the only diffrence is the SSJ2 aura. Gohan was a SSJ when he saw Videl's beatdown and he had 1 bang stands. He can't control his SSJ2 form this is why Goku told him to get mad so he can release his full power. His full power is his SSJ2.
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+ Clearin
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But Gohan doesn't need to get mad to turn Super Saiyan 2.
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pakl123456
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GridZero
May 30 2012, 06:12 PM
Puccio
May 30 2012, 06:12 PM
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thread in a nutshell. :C
LOL...

This guy is a professional troll, IMO.
How am I troll when I show facts. That sounds like someone who can't accept facts. Do you know what troll means? :o_O:
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Super Vegetto
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Goku talks about strenght he draws from anger not SSJ2. You still dont realize his true power is anger which can be in base also.
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GridZero
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Do you know what the word facts means?

Probably not.
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pakl123456
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Hugga_Bear
May 30 2012, 06:15 PM
The points have already been made, your wilful refusal to acknowledge them is irrelevant, they're there and they're logical.

To be frank it can go either way, there's reasons to say he's a SSJ and reasons to say he's a SSJ2 (yes there are sit down, questions at the end). To be frank I don't care which one you choose. I think he was a SSJ2 because it's illogical for him not to be, I'll follow logic over a thin argument on art style any day but at the same time I can see why people think he's a SSJ.

Y'know what? It doesn't matter.

What does matter are the perpetual insults, veiled or otherwise. No one is ignoring facts except you Pak. Again I don't care if you want to say Gohan is a SSJ, that's cool and fine and we'll go with that but your consistent refusal to acknowledge that there's even an argument when there clearly is one to be made is just tiresome.

We have the reasons for Gohan being a SSJ and the reasons for him being a SSJ2. Neither are conclusive (please don't, they're really not) so we can choose which we want to believe. I'm with whoever said it before, I think Puccio, that AT didn't care about the transformation, he was just writing the story and Gohan was to be weak.

Can this please end now? We're running in circles and have been from page 1. Pakl you're not right just because you keep saying you are. Nor are you wrong because people disagree with you. Some subjects have no right answer and some are unanswerable until more evidence comes to light, this is one of those and this argument is really getting dull now.
How am I ignoring facts. I never ignored Teen Gohan Z since he showed soome valid points while no one except of him was able tp show me a proof. Just babbling about it makes no sense for him to be a SSJ2. Anyway the evidences to prove he was a SSJ overpower the evidences for the SSJ2 (which there are barely ant evidences).

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It's really, REALLY simple. Always has been. Dunno why anyone would want to complicate it.

Teen Gohan Z
May 30 2012, 06:15 PM
He doesnt need anger to go SSJ2
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Yes he does. Goku told him to get mad so he can release full power. His full power is his SSJ2.
Edited by pakl123456, May 30 2012, 06:28 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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And Cell is SSJ2. No whait he is SSJ3.

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GridZero
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Here's SSJ2 Nappa.

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* Stark
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Rock Lobster

Gohan was really mad at Kibito then, he wasn't blushing because he's shy, but because he was RED OF ANGER!
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pakl123456
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Super Vegetto
May 30 2012, 06:23 PM
Goku talks about strenght he draws from anger not SSJ2. You still dont realize his true power is anger which can be in base also.
Cell had lightening since he was SSJ2 Tier. Also, Gohan's anger makes him go SSJ2, His full power was his SS2. How do you think Gohan beat Cell? He used his anger and hidden powers which are his full power SSJ2 form. Gohan never used his full power SSJ2 vs Dabura. This is why Goku told him to get angry. You are just making yourself look dumb when you show me Cell. That proves you have no proof.
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pakl123456
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GridZero
May 30 2012, 06:29 PM
Here's SSJ2 Nappa.

Posted Image
I know what facts are and I showed them oin my post. At least 5 statements from the Manga. You showed me no proof from the Manga and also Nappa was at full power. When someone powers up to fulll power he has lightening like Vegito did but later the lightening are gone. The fact that you show me Nappa proves you have no proof and also proves who is the real troll here who dosn't know what facts mean. :o
Edited by pakl123456, May 30 2012, 06:34 PM.
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Super Vegetto
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 06:31 PM
Super Vegetto
May 30 2012, 06:23 PM
Goku talks about strenght he draws from anger not SSJ2. You still dont realize his true power is anger which can be in base also.
Cell had lightening since he was SSJ2 Tier. Also, Gohan's anger makes him go SSJ2, His full power was his SS2. How do you think Gohan beat Cell? He used his anger and hidden powers which are his full power SSJ2 form. Gohan never used his full power SSJ2 vs Dabura. This is why Goku told him to get angry. You are just making yourself look dumb when you show me Cell. That proves you have no proof.
Man he can be in base and went enraged. Why is it Mystic Gohan and not SSJ2 Mystic Gohan ?

SSJ2 is just transformation. He is born with his dorment powers ( his true powers ) and not SSJ2.




Btw this is going no where and someone should close this topic.
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GridZero
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Yeah, this is about to start a flame war. Someone close it.
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Paikuan extreme
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pakl123456
May 30 2012, 05:58 PM
FamousBueller
May 30 2012, 05:47 PM
Goku told gohan to unleash his full power against cell when he was already ssj2 FACT, you havent provided any facts just your own opinion, everything youve shown is proof he was ssj2 in my eyes & many others, show me in the manga where gohan says "im ssj1" u cant end of story. So until there is REAL proof you can believe what u like

Edit: also goku could mean the cell he fought, but he was alive when cell fought ssj2 gohan, if he believes dabura was as strong as thst cell or stronger & gohan was weaker than he was then, then what ur sayin is gohan was superweak against dabura if he was only ssj
You are hypocrite. I showed every point in my first post. What power vs Cell. He told him to get mad like he did against Cell so he can unleash his true strength (SSJ2) Gohan's true strength is his full power SSJ2. Full power SSJ2 Gohan in the Buu Arc is weaker than SSJ2 Gohan in the Cell Games. Gohan can't be as strong as he was in the Cell Games. Giku meant to his full power (SSJ2). hOW DID i PROVE HE WAS A ssj2? Gohan and Dabura were unable to damage Buu's cacoon but Gooku and Dabura immidietly did. That proves Gohan was a SSJ. SSJ2 Gohan filled almost half od the needed power to revive Buu but was unable to inflict any damage during the fight. That proves he was a SSJ since the same Dabura was also unable to do any damage. Goku mean to Perfect Cell and probably the Cell he fought. because he said it will be easy to beat Dabura which means he only needs SSJ since SSJ2 was not that famous in that time or releaved for Goku and Vegeta. Gohan was anyway super weak this is why Vegeta was mad and Dabura said Gohan was trsh because he was SSJ. He wouldn't said he was trash if he was a SSJ2. I just showed factw hen they were unable to inflict any damage. You are just ignoring everything.
No, you are taking this out of context, and lucky for YOU, i have the scan to prove it.


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yeah, its pretty obvious that goku means that Gohan in order to release his full hidden power, needs to get angry like he did with cell.

Clearly gohan went beyond super saiyan at cell, so goku doesnt need to be THAT specific.

Clearly they are discussing going beyond super saiyan here, as gohan drew forth all of his strength in the finale against cell and blew him away so hard Cell couldnt even fight it. He just blew up, apart, and away.

Like discussed previous, gohan at cell for MSSJ was BELOW FPCELL. A weaker gohan that isnt the same is going to be weaker, gokus advice about the rage boost is advisable to gohan in his mind because he knows that gohans recent fighting and training might have shaken loose the rust thats grown on him.

Otherwise, discussing going beyond super saiyan has been the topic the entire time these guys have been fighting.

IMO, gohan was drawn an MSSj, but the narrative tells a different view.

Everyone standing there knows who cell is, and that gohan beat him in beyond super saiyan form.

Only the FANS pick apart cell and give him different names. NONE of the Z fighters, and especially goku, give the villains these special names.

Cell was all he was called, and cells final form is known by all.

so discussing cell only means cell as he was, and not some cell from before then. It makes no sense.

meaning that fighting cell as GOHAN was is also necessary, as Goku compared Dabra TO cell and then said that Dabra was stronger, in relation to finding out he had magic powers also.

Gohan was beyond super saiyan at Super perfect cell, thinking of it any other way is just splitting hairs. Thats what vegeta keeps referring to and thats what goku referred to.

its clear what needs to be believed. The narrrative is whats more important, and throught out my At interview search last night. I read him quote MANy times that the Art and fight scenes in DBZ were NOT as important to him as the story line. So changing faces, haircolor, and styles were nothing to him, as he only progresses forward. Saying on more than one occasion that he always thinks his newest work is better than the last, always thinking he messed up in some way. The guys a nut.

But whats being discussed here is clear. dabra is an SSj2 level character and is stronger than Spc.

which is why teen gohan is having issues with him. According to the narrative? gohan is getting his butt kicked, and hes already at full power, breathing hard, panting and sweating. Something he didnt do in MSSJ against goten not a couple days before, and goten was going all out on him, and even though gohan dodged all the shots, and blocked alot, he was still on the defensive the entire time, and realized how rusty he was.

if you are really reading the manga then take another look, and stop pestering people.


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