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Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,112 Views)
Paikuan extreme
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Without seeing this for myself in an objective way, i would never have seen it. i had to study this and make sure i was absolute on what i was seeing before i brought it here. But its true.

For spotting stuff like this in American comics? they give what they call a No prize to you, and a no prize is a years subscription of comics for free. Usually your title of choice.

Edited by Paikuan extreme, May 30 2012, 12:20 AM.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Darth Pyrus
May 30 2012, 12:12 AM
Ninjajp247
May 30 2012, 12:03 AM
its true. especially since toriyama admitted he changed gohans hairstyle at this time, what im saying is that without official word from toriyama himself we will never truly know WHAT gohan is, but thanx to the statements made about dabura AND gohan he is supposed to be in beyond super saiyan form.

Throughout his fight with dabra, not once did he have that crazy ssj2 aura, but he certaily had the hair. Its all i can say really. But whats there is undeniable. You see it for yourself.

I indeed have more scans of the fight on hand. I will post if needed.
Yeah, I've gone by this mindset for a while now. Toriyama clearly drew him as a Super Saiyan, but wrote the story as if he was a Super Saiyan 2. It's an eternal battle of art against narrative, and we'll probably never know the answer, but it's fun to debate most of the time anyway.
If this is a clear cut matter of art vs narrative, then I'd have to go with narrative probably 9 out of 10 times in any debate like this.
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Paikuan extreme
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for the most part people would.
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Super Gohan
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Ninjajp247
May 30 2012, 12:03 AM
its true. especially since toriyama admitted he changed gohans hairstyle at this time


Completely untrue, unless you're willing to provide evidence for that bald claim.

You'd be well advised not to casually pass off something as fact for only self-serving justification, there's no need for that.
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FamousBueller
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Super Asian

I dont see no proof he was ssj, i only seen proof he was ssj2

Gohan vs Kibito, he was ssj2 wit electric aura
Kibito says he couldnt bring gohan back to full
Goku says dabura is at cells power/stronger
Vegeta says gohan is weaker than against cell cuz of lack of training
gohan powers up to destroy the buu egg

Wheres proof gohan was ssj?

Ssj2 has 1 bang, wheres proof his ssj1 form has 1 bang?
Gohan was not at full power against dabura which means no electric aura, same as goku vs majin vegeta

Gohan powered up to his max to destroy the egg, why power up to ssj, if ur max is ssj2?
Gohan says hes strong but not as strong as he was against cell
Edited by FamousBueller, May 30 2012, 01:49 AM.
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+ Ryebrid
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It is not just the aura that is MSSJ but the hair as well.
Toriyama made a noticeable change in Gohan's hairstyle (the lacking of the second bang), this should be proof enough.

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His hair is still spikier in SSJ2 than it is in MSSJ, though their near identical in comparison.


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+ Pyrus
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Great HQ images, bro. You can definitely tell the difference between the two auras, and the hair if you look close enough. I can't find a reason that he'd be using the same form in both instances, neither visually nor narratively.
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GridZero
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Anyone consider that these just might be inconsistencies? Or maybe that he wanted to save time?

The only reason SSJ's have ''blond hair'' is because it saved time and ink for Toriyama and his editors to make, he said it himself. It wouldn't be fat fetched to think that he just forgot.
Edited by GridZero, May 30 2012, 02:09 AM.
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GridZero
May 30 2012, 02:09 AM
Anyone consider that these just might be inconsistencies? Or maybe that he wanted to save time?

The only reason SSJ's have ''blond hair'' is because it saved time and ink for Toriyama and his editors to make, he said it himself. It wouldn't be fat fetched to think that he just forgot.
Forgot to add lightning and draw a completely different aura? I don't believe that for a second, especially not for a whole fight. He's not that lazy. A panel or two here and there throughout a fight, sure, that's plausible, but not entire scenes and fights. That's just a huge stretch IMHO. It doesn't work in the case of Gohan vs Dabura because Dabura's fireball had lightning, so that would've been blatant neglect on Toriyama's part and not simply forgetting.
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GridZero
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Darth Pyrus
May 30 2012, 02:16 AM
GridZero
May 30 2012, 02:09 AM
Anyone consider that these just might be inconsistencies? Or maybe that he wanted to save time?

The only reason SSJ's have ''blond hair'' is because it saved time and ink for Toriyama and his editors to make, he said it himself. It wouldn't be fat fetched to think that he just forgot.
Forgot to add lightning and draw a completely different aura? I don't believe that for a second, especially not for a whole fight. He's not that lazy. A panel or two here and there throughout a fight, sure, that's plausible, but not entire scenes and fights. That's just a huge stretch IMHO. It doesn't work in the case of Gohan vs Dabura because Dabura's fireball had lightning, so that would've been blatant neglect on Toriyama's part and not simply forgetting.
Ah, that's pretty true. I had actually forgotten about Dabura's fireball.

Maybe Toriyama just wanted to troll all of us.

Toriyama: The Original Tite Kubo
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I actually think he just didn't care to keep it consistent. He was burnt out and wanted to return to his gag manga roots (see: Gotenks, Boo), so I could totally see him doing Chapter 500 one way and then going a different way in Chapter 501 just because. He was having fun and sometimes having fun requires being random.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Lol, I don't even think Akira Toriyama decided if Gohan was SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabra.

Editor: Wait a minute... shouldn't you specify whether or not Gohan is a Super Saiyan or if he is beyond Super Saiyan?
Toriyama: Ah, who cares? What, you think the fans will actually argue about what form he's using? Pfft, it's fine, just leave it like that.
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GridZero
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Darth Pyrus
May 30 2012, 02:22 AM
I actually think he just didn't care to keep it consistent. He was burnt out and wanted to return to his gag manga roots (see: Gotenks, Boo), so I could totally see him doing Chapter 500 one way and then going a different way in Chapter 501 just because. He was having fun and sometimes having fun requires being random.
Yeah, he must've been really burnt out. I read somewhere that during the 2 week break from the end of the Cell Saga, to the start of the Boo Saga, Toriyama never stopped writing for the series.

While I wasn't too fond of the gag manga at the middle of the Boo Saga, it did remind me a lot of DB, and I liked that.

(No wonder why Super Boo vs. Gotenks is one of Toriyama's favorite fights)

Edit:

Son Gohan
 
Lol, I don't even think Akira Toriyama decided if Gohan was SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabra.

Editor: Wait a minute... shouldn't you specify whether or not Gohan is a Super Saiyan or if he is beyond Super Saiyan?
Toriyama: Ah, who cares? What, you think the fans will actually argue about what form he's using? Pfft, it's fine, just leave it like that.


Lol!

That's probably exactly how it went down.
Edited by GridZero, May 30 2012, 02:32 AM.
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Super Vegetto
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Its pretty obvious that he messed up on purpouse. If he made interview after dbz finished, he would probably answer all questions and we wouldnt have anything for debate.

This debate like many others cant be solved until AT speaks but thats not going to happend.

Maybe AT still has some book while he was planing storyline. He cant remember all so he probably writed it and later made every page with words from that book. There is probably proof of Gohans true form but like i already said this stays unsolved.
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Paikuan extreme
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Super Gohan
May 30 2012, 01:25 AM
Ninjajp247
May 30 2012, 12:03 AM
its true. especially since toriyama admitted he changed gohans hairstyle at this time


Completely untrue, unless you're willing to provide evidence for that bald claim.

You'd be well advised not to casually pass off something as fact for only self-serving justification, there's no need for that.
provide evidence for my bold claim?

toriyama did a sit down interview with someone i saw on g4 a couple years ago at a comicon.

so i dont get what you mean by passing truth off. toriyama said he changed gohans hairstyle by cutting it at this time. so thats why the change in style was different for the way he drew.

So unless YOu have proof what i say is untrue then YOU need to provide it.

if you watched any of toriyamas interviews, most peoples first questions are about his change in style around this time.

so maybe you and pyrus can watch them together.
Edited by Paikuan extreme, May 30 2012, 03:04 AM.
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