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Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura
Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,113 Views)
Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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pakl123456
May 29 2012, 08:09 PM
GridZero
May 29 2012, 08:05 PM
Ugh, let this guy be. He's going to say Gohan was SSJ no matter what, so why bother trying anymore?

If he's going to deny statements from Daizenshuu, then there's no way any of us are getting to him.
Wow. The Daiz contradicts itself about Gohan vs Dabura since Daiz 7 says he was a SSJ2 but Daiz 2 says he only went SSJ2 vs Kibito. Everyone knows it. The Daiz contradicts itself and is unrealible. You sir are ignoring statements in the Manga.

Teen Gohan Z
May 29 2012, 08:05 PM
Gohan doesn't "Donate" energy. The egg only gets energy when Gohan is hit.
Quote:
 
Yet, Gohan hit Dabura in the first panel and it did nothing to Buu's cacoon. He hit him again and it did him nothing, Proof he was a SSJ, if he was a SSJ2 when he hit Dabura so the cacoom would b overflowing with energy

]Just use logic. Boo was a universe destroying monster. Why the f#$% would Gohan hold back and not go SSJ2 when the universe was at risk?

Just think about that. Furthermore, SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta said that Initial Boo (Boo when he first hatched and was not using full power) was nothing too strong, and Dabra agreed. This means Dabra is at least almost on par with SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku, for all three of them to think they could beat Boo when he first hatched, so it's illogical for SSJ Gohan to even be close to Dabra if this is so.
Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 29 2012, 08:23 PM.
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Quote:
 
Yet, Gohan hit Dabura in the first panel and it did nothing to Buu's cacoon. He hit him again and it did him nothing, Proof he was a SSJ, if he was a SSJ2 when he hit Dabura so the cacoom would b overflowing with energy

It only works when Dabura hits Gohan. I swear I already said that.
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pakl123456
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Son Gohan
May 29 2012, 08:23 PM
pakl123456
May 29 2012, 08:09 PM
GridZero
May 29 2012, 08:05 PM
Ugh, let this guy be. He's going to say Gohan was SSJ no matter what, so why bother trying anymore?

If he's going to deny statements from Daizenshuu, then there's no way any of us are getting to him.
Wow. The Daiz contradicts itself about Gohan vs Dabura since Daiz 7 says he was a SSJ2 but Daiz 2 says he only went SSJ2 vs Kibito. Everyone knows it. The Daiz contradicts itself and is unrealible. You sir are ignoring statements in the Manga.

Teen Gohan Z
May 29 2012, 08:05 PM
Gohan doesn't "Donate" energy. The egg only gets energy when Gohan is hit.
Quote:
 
Yet, Gohan hit Dabura in the first panel and it did nothing to Buu's cacoon. He hit him again and it did him nothing, Proof he was a SSJ, if he was a SSJ2 when he hit Dabura so the cacoom would b overflowing with energy

]Just use logic. Boo was a universe destroying monster. Why the f#$% would Gohan hold back and not go SSJ2 when the universe was at risk?

Just think about that. Furthermore, SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta said that Initial Boo (Boo when he first hatched and was not using full power) was nothing too strong, and Dabra agreed. This means Dabra is at least almost on par with SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku, for all three of them to think they could beat Boo when he first hatched, so it's illogical for SSJ Gohan to even be close to Dabra if this is so.
Gohan didn't go all out (FP SSJ2) when SPC was about to kill him and Goku pushed him o release hi full power and Gohan couldn't have done it till Vegeta's distraction so I am not surprised he didn't do it vs Dabura. Wrong! Goku said Buu was strong even when he first appeared. Vegeta said he is nothing because he was coky and proud and the same Goku said Vegeta was lying and knew Buu was strong and Dabura is also coky and thought he was weak and based on his appearance. Fat Buu was at his calmest state when he first appeared which means he was as strong as Good Buu and Good Buu is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta (based on the fight vs Kid Buu) and probably above SSJ2 Goku as well since SSJ2 goku is not much stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta unlike Good Buu. If Dabura was close to SSJ2 Goku, why he and Gohan were barely able to fill Buu's cacoon with energy while Goku and Vegeta inflicted a huge damage to his cacoon?? That's a final proof Gohan was a SSJ. Agaim, show me proof he was a SSJ2, you are going off fan theoried baced up nothing. I already said enough which proves Gohan was a SSJ.
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Fat Buu was at his calmest state when he first appeared which means he was as strong as Good Buu

This is 100% speculation.

When Fat Buu is first hatched:
Gohan says he can win if he puts out his true power
Dabura thinks he can just win as he is.

Make of that what you will.
Edited by Clearin, May 29 2012, 08:43 PM.
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pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 29 2012, 08:29 PM
Quote:
 
Yet, Gohan hit Dabura in the first panel and it did nothing to Buu's cacoon. He hit him again and it did him nothing, Proof he was a SSJ, if he was a SSJ2 when he hit Dabura so the cacoom would b overflowing with energy

It only works when Dabura hits Gohan. I swear I already said that.
Where was it said??? SSJ2 Gohan can also damage the cacoon since his ki had filled up almost of the energy needed. Gosh, all those facts prove he was a SSJ. Why can't you just accept it after I showed too many points which sipport my claim.
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pakl123456
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Teen GohanZ
May 29 2012, 08:43 PM
Quote:
 
Fat Buu was at his calmest state when he first appeared which means he was as strong as Good Buu

This is 100% speculation.

When Fat Buu is first hatched:
Gohan says he can win if he puts out his true power
Dabura thinks he can just win as he is.

Make of that what you will.
Dabura is coky and judged Buu's appearance. Goku said his ki was incredible when he first hatched, which proves Gohan was wrong. Fat Buu=Good Buu at his calmest might be a fact. The Buu who was with Satan was at his clamest as well, It should be Good Buu.
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Dabura is coky and judged Buu's appearance. Goku said his ki was incredible when he first hatched, which proves Gohan was wrong.

Dabura made a direct comment to his power
Dabra: “I don’t know why, but it seems we failed…I thought [Boo] had finally appeared, but it’s just some stupid-looking raw garbage, without brains or power…”
The comment involves Buu's appearance, brains AND power. Buu even has to power up before attacking Dabura, why would he do that if his current power was already far above Dabura?

Quote:
 
Fat Buu=Good Buu at his calmest might be a fact.

No it isn't. Never stated at all.

Edited becuase I said "Both" and listed 3 things lol.
Edited by Clearin, May 29 2012, 10:22 PM.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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pakl123456
May 29 2012, 08:42 PM
Gohan didn't go all out (FP SSJ2) when SPC was about to kill him and Goku pushed him o release hi full power and Gohan couldn't have done it till Vegeta's distraction so I am not surprised he didn't do it vs Dabura.
Gohan was bit injured, putting it mildly. So injured that he lost more than half his power. So it's kind of understandable that he had trouble reaching full power.
...
 
Goku said Buu was strong even when he first appeared. Vegeta said he is nothing because he was coky and proud and the same Goku said Vegeta was lying and knew Buu was strong and Dabura is also coky and thought he was weak and based on his appearance.
Dabra said Boo's power was low, just like TGZ said, and Goku never outright denied what Vegeta said; he simply said that something felt odd about Boo's ki, implying Boo's full power was much greater. He never actually said Boo was stronger than Vegeta, and what Vegeta and Dabra said was never contradicted. It was only when Boo powered up that he could stomp Dabra and Vegeta.
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This is probably in the top 3 entertaining DBZ debates when it doesn't turn into a flamefest. Keep going. :)

On a serious note, I agree with TGZ. Nobody ever changes their opinion here. They might be more enlightened, but they won't do a 180.
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GridZero
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I did a 180 once. I was ridiculously dependent on the Viz translation to the point where I'd discredit the Herms one, lol.

Thanks for showing me it, everyone.
Edited by GridZero, May 29 2012, 10:23 PM.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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Darth Pyrus
May 29 2012, 10:10 PM
This is probably in the top 3 entertaining DBZ debates when it doesn't turn into a flamefest. Keep going. :)

On a serious note, I agree with TGZ. Nobody ever changes their opinion here. They might be more enlightened, but they won't do a 180.
I have to agree with this, disregarding GridZero's case. I think that we have some conflicting evidence that isn't giving us a clear answer. So all I'll say is:

- Gohan could go SSJ2 at will, not just when he was angry. He was blushing, smiling, and waving seconds before going SSJ2 for Kibit.
- The universe was at risk of destruction from a universe buster monster (Majin Boo), so why would Gohan hold back? He's not typically one to do so on will when his life was threatened and the world was in threat
- Vegeta and Goku likely would have asked "Why doesn't Gohan just go SSJ2 and get on with it, lawlz"
- Goku never outright denied that Vegeta could beat Boo (Hatched) if Boo didn't power up. He just said that "There’s something abnormal about this ki", implying Boo's true power was much greater (which it was). He never actually denied Vegeta's claim: "Here I was wondering what kind of amazing guy [Majin Boo] would be, and he’s got this kind of battle power number?...I thought so…Kakarot, you and I have now become too strong…By a wide margin!". We know that Vegeta can sense ki, so I don't think he'd be cocky enough to straight out lie
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Paikuan extreme
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The strong argument is that gohans look didnt change between hairstyles, only auras. except that, gohan clearly has an aura od beyond super saiyan at Kibit, but did not have that same aura nor electric sparks Vs dabura.

Here is Gohan VS Kibit at the budokai after going beyons super saiyan and saying so. Posted Image

THIS is a clear image of gohan standing still and supposedly in the same state of power. VS dabra Posted Image qrtr left panel...that is not an ssj2 aura. At all. So thats a clear point for the MSSj side.

The hair says SSJ2 but the aura clearly does not, and has electricity missing, whcich is NOT a common concept in this magazine for the beyond super saiyan form. At all.

everyone knows the daiz does contradict itself, but it also makes valid points, as most of the work was looked over and approved by toriyama himself.

i have always personally believed gohan was drawn MSSj here, but seeing as he is sweating and oging full power, and vegeta + goku keep making disparaging remarks about his power, its pretty clear they think hes supposed to be soemthing stronger than what he is. Goku clearly states he thinks dabra is at Cells level, and then later recants by saying that he was even stronger than he thought previous. No questions, this happened.

No way is gohan whom vegeta said is WAYYY below his kid self at Cell, is going to fight someone as strong as cell or stronger in their SSJ form. if thats true?

Then that mean we are wrong about EVERYTHING in the buu saga and have the wrong power levels for everyone. Cause if goku can talk about cell like he's yesterdays news and then say the guy he compared him to is even STRONGER ? then that means that both goku and vegeta can now beat up cell in MSSJ.

Meaning that they have both effectively achieved to become almost 5x stronger than their cell games selves in 7 years.

hardly believable.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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So is what you're saying that the art says Gohan is MSSJ, but statements, logic, and implications say he is SSJ2?

That's what I interpreted your post as, please tell me if I'm wrong.
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Paikuan extreme
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its true. especially since toriyama admitted he changed gohans hairstyle at this time, what im saying is that without official word from toriyama himself we will never truly know WHAT gohan is, but thanx to the statements made about dabura AND gohan he is supposed to be in beyond super saiyan form.

Throughout his fight with dabra, not once did he have that crazy ssj2 aura, but he certaily had the hair. Its all i can say really. But whats there is undeniable. You see it for yourself.

I indeed have more scans of the fight on hand. I will post if needed.
Edited by Paikuan extreme, May 30 2012, 12:04 AM.
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Ninjajp247
May 30 2012, 12:03 AM
its true. especially since toriyama admitted he changed gohans hairstyle at this time, what im saying is that without official word from toriyama himself we will never truly know WHAT gohan is, but thanx to the statements made about dabura AND gohan he is supposed to be in beyond super saiyan form.

Throughout his fight with dabra, not once did he have that crazy ssj2 aura, but he certaily had the hair. Its all i can say really. But whats there is undeniable. You see it for yourself.

I indeed have more scans of the fight on hand. I will post if needed.
Yeah, I've gone by this mindset for a while now. Toriyama clearly drew him as a Super Saiyan, but wrote the story as if he was a Super Saiyan 2. It's an eternal battle of art against narrative, and we'll probably never know the answer, but it's fun to debate most of the time anyway.
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