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| Why Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 25 2012, 01:28 PM (35,100 Views) | |
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May 25 2012, 01:28 PM Post #1 |
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How strong are Dabura and the Kais? This thread will be going over a multitude of topics that have been for debate for quite some time. They will be presenting in the following order: 1) Gohan vs Dabura. 2) Dabura compared to Cell. 3) The Kais compared to Dabura and Cell. Now then, to begin with, there are still many opposing points of views on whether Gohan was a SSJ or a SSJ2 when he fought Dabura. I will prove that he was in fact only in his SSJ when battling the Demon King. Here is the most basic piece of evidence, which still fails to convince many, the diffrence in a SSJ aura and a SSJ2 aura. SSJ aura: No lightening, less sharper aura and less spikier hair. SSJ2 aura: Sharper aura and with lightening surrounding the aura and more spikier. As you can see, there's is a staggering diffrence between the two auras, people think Gohan was a SSJ2 since he had 1 bang stands, however Toriyama drew SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan with 1 bang stands during the World Tourment. Gohan had 1 bang stands when he saw Spopovich beating Videl and he was just a SSJ. But this is not the only piece of evidence to prove my point. Here it will get a little more complex. Frequents amounts of people have said that, although he looks like a SSJ, it fits into the story far more to say that Gohan was a SSJ2 while fighting Dabura, and that it's the only thing to make the following events consistently sensible. However... Chapter: 443 (DBZ 249), P5.3-6 Context: after Spopovich beats Videl Krillin: "That rotten...! Why is he doing this!? Sharpener: "Videl! Damn him! Gohan: "NNGGHH!!! Goku: "Gohan! calm down, he's not going to kill her. Chapter: 443 (DBZ 249), P7.1-2 Gohan: "Damn it! I've had it with this bastard!" Krillin: "Hey hey! Calm down, Gohan!" Gohan: "No way." Chapter: 443 (DBZ 249), P10.1-5 Gohan: "Videl! Announcer: "I will call a stretcher Gohan: "No! I'll carry her. Videl: "ahh..." Gohan: "Supopobitchi! I'm going to get you for this. Got that?" ...Uppon witnessing Videl's beatdown by Spopovitch, Gohan's emotions became highly flustered, enough so that it was capable of tiggering a full scale of transformation into a SSJ2. Remember this, after the Cell Games, Gohan never even trained in his SSJ2 form nor mastered the transformation itself. Unlike Goku or Vegeta, Gohan's SSJ2 transformation still required an intense moment of stirring rage. At the World Martial Arts Tourment, Gohan's temperament was what initiated his capability to go SSJ2, in lamen terms, he was mad enough to becmoe a SSJ2. Sure, Videl was healed by a senzu bean, but despite that , Gohan still wanted revenge over what Spopovich did. His anger regarding that didn't change. To make it simple, the conditions required for an uncontrolled SSJ2 transformation were just right for Gohan during this particular event (ex. friends he care about being hurt retribution). But if we compare that to his situation against Babidi and Dabura... Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2 Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…” ...Gohan blatantly admits to not being angry enough (for whatever reasons) to become a SSJ2 when contemplating Goku's advice to unleash his full power. This also goes for his trip into Babidi's ship and his fight with Dabura. Never once was he enraged during his time spent with Goku and Vegtea battling Babidi's henchmen to the extent as he was when watching Videl fighting Spopovich and the aftermath of the fight. Seeing as we've gotten that issue all figured out and explained, let's move on to even more evident indications of a SSJ Gohan vs Dabura. If we are to take the possibility of a SSJ2 Gohan vs Dabura seriously, we must see if it fits in with the plot. We'll start it off with Goku's unawareness to Majin Vegeta's SSJ2 form. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4 Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.” Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!” Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P9.1-5 Context: after Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta: "Haaaa!" Goku: "It looks like it'll take a while" Vegeta: "Here I go! I am going to kill you, Kakarot!" With Vegeta under Babidi's spell, Goku intended to beat him quickly with SSJ2, so he can prevent Majin Boo's awakening. Once seeing Vegeta transform into a SSJ2 as well, Goku was quite startled. Since we now know that Goku didn't know of Vegeta's SSJ2 form, we can apply this knowledge to this specific scene. Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6 Context: as Gohan fights Dabra Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!” Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.” When Goku, Vegeta and East Kaioshin observe Gohan's fight with Dabura, Vegeta irritatingly demands to finish the fight with Dabura, insisting he'd by no doubt win. Interestingly, Goku has no objections to Vegeta's claim. Whether or not Vegeta had already attained SSJ2 before being converted to Majin influence is another matter of discussion, but the fact remains that Goku didn't know about it and yet he still made no indication that Vegeta couldn't handle Dabura on his own. This is a clear cut sign that Dabura is nowhere near the league of, say, Super Perfect Cell, or any SSJ2 for that matter. It also, obviously, proves that Gohan was difinitely not a SSJ2. Finally, if we were to look closely at the context Gohan is speaking in of the SSJ2's here... Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P6.1-2 Context: after Majin Boo quickly reaches full power Kaioshin: “Th-that’s impossible…Wh-why has Goku’s damage energy [filled it up] already…!?” Gohan: “…I-I know…! Father is fighting at a level that has further surpassed Super Saiyan…Vegeta probably is too…If-if two incredible powers like that clash, th-the damage is astounding too…!” ...We see that he reacts with a sudden realization that the reason why Boo's shell was now overflowing with energy must have been because Goku and Vegeta were fighting at the level beyond the regular Super Saiyan. Why would Gohan be so rattled by this discovery if he and Dabura were already fighting in the same league beforehand (which had barely filled Boo's shell with any energy at all)? Maybe because he and Dabura weren't even in that league of power to begin with.... It has been settled then, Gohan was not a SSJ2 when fighting Dabura, and Dabura is nowhere near the league of a SSJ2. Edited by pakl123456, May 25 2012, 04:42 PM.
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| + Clearin | May 25 2012, 01:53 PM Post #2 |
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It was actually Oolong transformed as Gohan pretending to be a SSj3 without the long hair or sparks. Nah but seriously I think he was SSj2. The only thing that even makes me give any thought otherwise is the aura and lack of sparks, nothing else points to MSSj for me. Note: I'm going to be using some of the Buu fight as evidence here since I think this debate applies to both as the situation is almost the same The hair is just inconsistent though Best example: Spoiler: click to toggle In the first pic his bang is short and his hair is obviously MSSj, yet the 2nd one his bang gets longer and his hair gets spikier making it seem like he's a SSj2. This happens a lot during the Dabura and Majin Buu fight, I really can't be bothered gathering all the examples but I'm sure you can find them yourself. Sometimes the bang is obviously SSj2 length and sometimes it's too small while other times his hair isn't spiky enough etc. These hair errors also apply to everyone, such as Goku's SSj2 bang changing sizes and his hair spikiness changes a lot too. 1.Firstly the situation. Krillin and Piccolo were stone statues, Dabura was trying to revive Buu and the most damage he did the more power Buu got. It would make 0 sense for Gohan to hold back. Also if you look really close in this pic Spoiler: click to toggle You can clearly see Dabura is trying to kill Gohan. Now I'm pretty sure Gohan isn't suicidal or mentally retarded. If someone is trying to kill him, he would do his best to make sure he wouldn't be killed. And in that case it would mean turning SSj2. 2. No one actually commented on Gohan holding back. The only thing they did was make fun of him for getting weaker, instead they should be saying "Why isn't Gohan turning Super Saiyan 2 and winning easily?". That would make much more sense. Quotes: Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2 Context: as Dabra fights Gohan Goku: "Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?" Vegeta: "Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…" Goku: "He really did slack off!" Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6 Context: as Gohan fights Dabra Vegeta: "Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!" Goku: "Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing." 3. Before Gohan fights Dabura again Goku makes many comments about Gohan needing to get mad to win, and then Gohan and Supreme Kai both make many comments about Gohan needing to get a rage boost to win. If Dabura was MSSJ tier Goku should have just said "Just turn SSJ2 to win lol" Quotes: Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6 Goku: "Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone… Note (via Savage): I think it's worth mentioning here that Goku didn't cite what had very recently happened at the Budokai (SSJ2), but instead talks about Gohan's strength when he faced Cell. So, Gohan's full power was the issue here, not Gohan's access to his strongest transformation. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2 Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry Gohan: "I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…" Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P10.2-3 Context: after Boo seems to be dead on arrival Kaioshin: "Goku and Vegeta are probably having a roughly even fight…I’ll pin Babidi down. After that, if you can manage to defeat Dabra, then Babidi’s scheme will be completely wiped out! So then! Now’s the time to get angry, like Goku said! Get angry and show me your true power! Gohan, peace is almost at hand!" 4. Gohan pretty much makes a comment that he is going to put out his true ability agaisnt Buu. I think the most obvious first step to putting out his true ability is turning SSj2. Quote: Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7 Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out my true ability…” 5. Here Supreme Kai makes Gohan seem amazing, Kibito had already seen his SSj2 power so why would Supreme Kai act as if his MSSJ power was incredible and something Kibito had never seen before? He even says "You probably can't imagine" can't imagine what? That Gohan can put forth a fraction of the power he's already shown Kibito? >_> Unlikely. Quotes: Chapter: 470 (DBZ 276), P5.2-4 Context: Kaioshin says the situation isn’t completely hopeless Kibito: “Huh…!? You can’t mean…Does this have anything to do with Son Gohan…?” Kaioshin: “That’s right…His power is far beyond our imagination. If we took it and changed it into something even more unreal, he might be able to surpass Majin Boo…” Kibito: “Wh-what!? That can’t be…” Kaioshin: “You didn’t see how amazing those 3 Saiyans were, so you probably couldn’t imagine…” Chapter: 471 (DBZ 277), P10.2-4 Kaioshin: “I want Gohan to use the Z Sword to defeat Majin Boo. Knowing him, he should definitely be able to use it.” Kibito“A-are you serious, Lord Kaioshin…?!! There’s no way that a human or the like would be able to use the Z Sword!! That legendary sword which not merely myself, but numerous Kaioshins were utterly unable to handle…” Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power.” Note the bottom quote says "Kaioshin: “You were dead, Kibito, so you didn’t get to see Gohan here’s unbelievably tremendous power." "You didn't get to see his power" so the power MUST be stronger than the power he showed Kibito before. 6. Gohan is confident he is faster than Buu Quote: Chapter: 462 (DBZ 268), P9.2, P11.3 Context: as Gohan and Kaioshin flee from Boo Gohan: “It’s alright! I’m confident in my speed!” *Boo quickly catches up to them* Gohan: “…! Th-that can’t be…!” You'd think he'd at least make himself at his fastest before saying that and running away right? Why make yourself slower than you can be? Same logic goes for making yourself weaker than you can be. 7. And if Gohan is MSSj then why did Dabura's blast barley scratch him? Perfect Cell kicked him and made him bleed, he used a kiai and everyone thought Gohan had died. Dabura hits him square in the face with a blast and Gohan comes out within seconds showing no physical damage. 8. Gohan was also clearly exhausted by the time the fight ended (Hence why he needed a senzu) yet if he was MSSj he'd not only be not trying his hardest but he'd be in a form specifically created to stop energy drainage. 9. Daiz 7. Also I know Daiz 2 says that Gohan didn't turn SSj2 after the tournament but imo Daiz 2 is kinda unreliable, it's full of errors and on that same page it says SSj3 Gotenks appears in volume 42. 10. Dabura thinks he can beat Fat Buu when he firsts hatches, this was Gohan's reponse to Fat Buu as soon as he'd been formed: Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out all of my true power…” So Gohan needs to put out his true power, which is obviously SSj2, yet Dabura is also 100% confident in beating Buu. There we go, that's why I think Gohan is a SSj2. The above was all copied and pasted from another topic since I couldn't be bothered re-writing it all out. I also want to reply to some of your points. 1. Gohan didn't need rage to turn SSj2, he turned SSj2 for Kibito while he was completely calm, he was smiling embarrassingly at his classmates and blushing. Gohan is obviously going to be more angry after his friends have been turned to stone and someone is trying to kill him. 2. About Vegeta beating Dabura, well I do have MSSj Vegeta stronger than Dabura. I can't speak for anyone else here but I personally have a low SSj2 multiplier (x2), so not only has Gohan got weaker but Vegeta has got much stronger (I'd say SSj2 Vegeta is about 15% less than SSj2 Gohan at the Cell games) and I gave Cell Games Gohan a rage boost, which helps further increase the gap between Buu saga Vegeta and Gohan. Basically MSSj Vegeta needs to be twice as strong as MSSj Gohan for him to stand a chance agaisnt Dabura in my case, and he is more than twice as strong imo. 2b. That also means that I think all "get angry Gohan" comments in the Buu saga refer to getting a rage boost, not turning SSj2. 3. This line:
It's more about the huge amounts of power Goku and Vegeta are putting out, he's not just saying "SSj2 is so powerful!" he's saying "Vegeta and Goku at SSj2 are incredible powers!" So yeah, other than the art I have yet to see any real evidence for MSSj in my case, and the art does not take priority for all the reasons he'd go SSJ2 imo. Edited by Clearin, May 25 2012, 01:56 PM.
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May 25 2012, 02:06 PM Post #3 |
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I had Gohan as a SSJ and mostly because of pictures. Later i noticed that there is more proof and logic for him to be SSJ2. Now i will always say that Gohan was SSJ2 until AT says diffrent. |
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May 25 2012, 02:26 PM Post #4 |
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Wow, this thread in the wrong section again. Gohan was SSJ2. |
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| Master of Dragon Ball | May 25 2012, 02:46 PM Post #5 |
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Hey, does anybody know how to unlock SSj4 Goku in Budokai Tenkaichi 3? I thought I would ask here since we are putting things in the wrong section anyway.
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May 25 2012, 03:05 PM Post #6 |
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"Nah but seriously I think he was SSj2. The only thing that even makes me give any thought otherwise is the aura and lack of sparks, nothing else points to MSSj for me." There is no proof Gohan was SSJ2. Dabura said he can easily beat Gohan and that he is trash which means Dabura was much stronger than Gohan and was just toying with him and if Gohan was a SSJ2 so Dabura is at least close to SSJ2 Goku and he is way weaker. That proves Gohan was a SSJ. He had no lightening and any SSJ2 has lightening. "In the first pic his bang is short and his hair is obviously MSSj, yet the 2nd one his bang gets longer and his hair gets spikier making it seem like he's a SSj2. This happens a lot during the Dabura and Majin Buu fight, I really can't be bothered gathering all the examples but I'm sure you can find them yourself. Sometimes the bang is obviously SSj2 length and sometimes it's too small while other times his hair isn't spiky enough etc. These hair errors also apply to everyone, such as Goku's SSj2 bang changing sizes and his hair spikiness changes a lot too." The length of the bang doesn't prove which form Gohan used. The only time that the Gohan's hair was the factor for his form was in the Great Saiyaman Saga when Gohan had 2 bangs stand as a SSJ and one bang stans as a SSJ2. In the World Tourment Saga Gohan's hair was the same as a SSJ or SSJ2, one bang stands. "You can clearly see Dabura is trying to kill Gohan. Now I'm pretty sure Gohan isn't suicidal or mentally retarded. If someone is trying to kill him, he would do his best to make sure he wouldn't be killed. And in that case it would mean turning SSj2." So what? Gohan held back and never unleashed his full power when Cell almost killed him. Gohan stopped Dabura's sword as a SSJ and never went SSJ2 since he was not angry enough. "No one actually commented on Gohan holding back. The only thing they did was make fun of him for getting weaker, instead they should be saying "Why isn't Gohan turning Super Saiyan 2 and winning easily?". That would make much more sense." Gohan also was weaker as a SSJ. Vegeta said he would beat Dabura and Goku never contradicted him. Remember Goku doesn't know Vegeta has SSJ2. "Before Gohan fights Dabura again Goku makes many comments about Gohan needing to get mad to win, and then Gohan and Supreme Kai both make many comments about Gohan needing to get a rage boost to win. If Dabura was MSSJ tier Goku should have just said "Just turn SSJ2 to win lol" When Goku says "get mad Gohan" He can mean that Gohan needs to get mad so he can go SSJ2. In the Manga Gohan's full power is his SSJ2 so Goku basically told him to use full power (SSJ2) I never said Dabura is MSSJ Tier. Dabura was toying with Gohan and said he was trash. Dabura was much stronger than Gohan. I think Dabura is close to Full Power Perfect Cell. "Here Supreme Kai makes Gohan seem amazing, Kibito had already seen his SSj2 power so why would Supreme Kai act as if his MSSJ power was incredible and something Kibito had never seen before? He even says "You probably can't imagine" can't imagine what? That Gohan can put forth a fraction of the power he's already shown Kibito? >_> Unlikely." Kaioshin was surprised about Base Vegeta's ki, why if he already saw SSJ2 Gohan? Kaioshin could of meant to the fact that they easily beat Babidi's henchmen and to their combat skills or about Gohan's anger. Besides if Gohan was using the same SSJ2 he showed Kibito why would Kaioshin say that anyway? Your point is moot. "so the power MUST be stronger than the power he showed Kibito before." How if he didn't get angry at all?? Besides he could of meant to the fact that they were very powerful in their base forms and that they easily beat Babidi's henchmen. He talked about Goku and Vegeta as well, not only Gohan. He also talked about Gohan's anger vaguely. "You'd think he'd at least make himself at his fastest before saying that and running away right? Why make yourself slower than you can be? Same logic goes for making yourself weaker than you can be." He is confident about his SSJ speed and? How does it prove he as a SSJ2? "And if Gohan is MSSj then why did Dabura's blast barley scratch him? Perfect Cell kicked him and made him bleed, he used a kiai and everyone thought Gohan had died. Dabura hits him square in the face with a blast and Gohan comes out within seconds showing no physical damage." Dabura was toying with Gohan and said he was trash. Goku could of meant to the Cell he fought and Gohan was also losing and was barely able to put a fight, this is why he heavily breathed after the fight was over. Why do you think Vegeta was so mad? If Gohan was a SSJ2 so Dabura has to be at least SSJ2 Goku's level since he said Gohan was trash and can easily beat him but we know Dabura is way weaker than SSJ2 Goku so Dabura said Gohan was trash and he can easily beat him (which proves Dabura was much stronger than Gohan) because Gohan was a SSJ. "Gohan was also clearly exhausted by the time the fight ended (Hence why he needed a senzu) yet if he was MSSj he'd not only be not trying his hardest but he'd be in a form specifically created to stop energy drainage." I am not sure. Please explain. Besides Gohan slacked off for 7 years so he probably had no control about his power or his fighting sense as MSSJ. "Daiz 7. Also I know Daiz 2 says that Gohan didn't turn SSj2 after the tournament but imo Daiz 2 is kinda unreliable, it's full of errors and on that same page it says SSj3 Gotenks appears in volume 42." LOL. If anything Daizenshuu 7 is the Daiz with the most errors. *Daizenshuu 7 Tenshinhan's profile lists one of his battles was against no.19, while it actually was against no.17 " 17 uses Kienzan " Goten was born while Goku fought cell " Goku's first KHH was used on Tenshinhan, but it was actually Jackie Chun he used it on " Bra born in 780 in one part of the book, and then later stated to be born in 778. " The timeline has other errors. Like Yamcha meet, and defeat, and so on. " Its states Goku stayed dead longer than a year for the saiyans, but he was only dead for a little over 11. Also dont forget that over the official PL lists from V-Jump, SEG and so on, there are some literaly factual errors, like Piccolo Diamao's 260, despite tenshinhan being 250 at the start of Z and the fact that Weighted Goku from Piccolo Jr being > Piccolo D and Tein being on par with that goku The list goes on. "Dabura is also 100% confident in beating Buu." He underestimated him based on his appearance. Besides Buu only releaved his true power when he gave that evil look. "Gohan didn't need rage to turn SSj2, he turned SSj2 for Kibito while he was completely calm, he was smiling embarrassingly at his classmates and blushing. Gohan is obviously going to be more angry after his friends have been turned to stone and someone is trying to kill him." Look at his expressions when he went SSJ2. He had an enraged expression. He never mastered the form after the Cell Games and also required it woth huge rage. "Basically MSSj Vegeta needs to be twice as strong as MSSj Gohan for him to stand a chance agaisnt Dabura in my case, and he is more than twice as strong imo." SSJ2 Vegeta is a bit stronger than SSJ2 Kid Gohan and SPC, so his SSJ form is a bit stronger than SSJ Kid Gohan. SSJ2=2X SSJ and SSJ Vegeta is not 2x stronger than SSJ Gohan. IF that's true so Gohan lost 50% of his power which is absourd. I would say Gohan lsot at max 25% of his power. SSJ Vegeta is way weaker than SSJ2 Adult Gohan. "2b. That also means that I think all "get angry Gohan" comments in the Buu saga refer to getting a rage boost, not turning SSj2." I think it means to go SSJ2. "It's more about the huge amounts of power Goku and Vegeta are putting out, he's not just saying "SSj2 is so powerful!" he's saying "Vegeta and Goku at SSj2 are incredible powers!"" Wrong! Herma claim Gohan meant to the SSJ2 form so hence Herms even shows Gohan was a SSJ vs Dabura. Gohan talked about the SSJ2 level not about the power. He said the power of the SSJ2 level. Dabura was much stronger than Gohan so if Gohan was a SSJ2, Dabura is at least close to SSJ2 Goku but he is not since he barely inflicted any damage to the cacoon since they were not SSJ2 level. Gohan was a SSJ. it's a Manga fact supported by Herms (the most realible translation). "So yeah, other than the art I have yet to see any real evidence for MSSj in my case, and the art does not take priority for all the reasons he'd go SSJ2 imo." I already proved he was a SSJ. It's a Manga fact. Every SSJ2 has lightening and Gohan never did. |
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May 25 2012, 03:06 PM Post #7 |
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I proved he was a SSJ. AT designed him as a SSJ. There is zero proof Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Dabura. When Gohan said Goku and Vegeta inflict a lot of damage to Buu's cacoon he refered to the SSJ2 form and Herms supported it implying Gohan was not a SSJ2. It's a fact. |
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May 25 2012, 03:07 PM Post #8 |
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I proved he was a SSJ. AT designed him as a SSJ. There is zero proof Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Dabura. When Gohan said Goku and Vegeta inflict a lot of damage to Buu's cacoon he refered to the SSJ2 form and Herms supported it implying Gohan was not a SSJ2. It's a fact. You are ignoring everything in my post. Herm show Gohan was a SSJ when Gohan talks about the SSJ2 form so hence it's a Manga fact. |
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May 25 2012, 03:08 PM Post #9 |
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I do. You need to play in the Dragon Hystory and surpass the sagas untill you arrive to the GT Saga. After beating Baby you unlock SSJ4 Goku. |
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May 25 2012, 03:15 PM Post #10 |
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/thread Edited by GridZero, May 25 2012, 03:16 PM.
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May 25 2012, 03:16 PM Post #11 |
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Man there is just to much evidence of him beeing SSJ2. |
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| + Clearin | May 25 2012, 03:19 PM Post #12 |
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Well there is some evidence, that I posted. Also what? Dabura doesn't have to be close to SSj2 Goku at all, you're using your own powers here as a way of proving which form Gohan was in.
The bang is shorter in MSSj (Shown at the tournament when Videl is getting beat and when he is pulling the Z sword out). The SSj2 bang is always long.
Gohan was using his full power agaisnt Cell, he just didn't finish the fight quickly. Also the anger thing is addressed later.
I already addressed this point...
That's your own personal opinion, it's not evidence of anything. I think he means get mad to get the rage boost, not turn SSj2.
Because Vegeta's base Ki was powerful, and Kaioshin knew he could transform and get stronger. He didn't say to Kibito "Base Vegeta was amazing!" but he did say "Gohan was so amazing! You couldn't imagine/You didn't see". Kibito has seen SSj2 Gohan, so saying Kibito couldn't imagine/hasn't seen MSSJ Gohan's power is kinda weird. I think Kaioshin said it because Gohan was stronger than he was at the tournament, either he was using his full power now or he had a slight anger boost (He did say he was a little mad, just not as much as he was agaisnt Cell).
He did get angry, he flat out said he did.
Already mentioned it in my first post...
Dabura was hardly "toying" with him, not only had he been given direct orders from Babidi to collect as much energy as possible but he was trying to kill Gohan. Also here you go again with "Dabura has to be at least SSj2 Goku's level", that's not true at all.
Explain what? I already explained my points.
Nah, Daiz 2 has more.
He specifically mentioned Buu's lack of power, so no he wasn't basing solely on appearance.
Lots of people have that serious face when they transform, doesn't mean they're all mad. Goten had a serious face when he turned MSSj for Gohan.
Did you purpsley ignore the fact I said I think Gohan had a rage boost agaisnt Cell?
Herms didn't make DBZ, he just translated it. He might translate it but he doesn't have the final say in things like these, that's just his opinion. Also he didn't say Gohan meant SSj2 form, I saw the quote, he said "If-if two incredible powers like that clash" The two incredible powers being SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku.
You didn't prove anything. Stop pretending your opinion is a fact. |
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May 25 2012, 03:24 PM Post #13 |
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LOL. If anything Daizenshuu 7 is the Daiz with the most errors. *Daizenshuu 7 Tenshinhan's profile lists one of his battles was against no.19, while it actually was against no.17 " 17 uses Kienzan " Goten was born while Goku fought cell " Goku's first KHH was used on Tenshinhan, but it was actually Jackie Chun he used it on " Bra born in 780 in one part of the book, and then later stated to be born in 778. " The timeline has other errors. Like Yamcha meet, and defeat, and so on. " Its states Goku stayed dead longer than a year for the saiyans, but he was only dead for a little over 11. Also dont forget that over the official PL lists from V-Jump, SEG and so on, there are some literaly factual errors, like Piccolo Diamao's 260, despite tenshinhan being 250 at the start of Z and the fact that Weighted Goku from Piccolo Jr being > Piccolo D and Tein being on par with that goku The list goes on. Besides Daizenshuu 2 states he only went SSJ2 vs Kibito so the Daizenshuu contradicts itself and can't be used, it's unrealible. How was it an even fight. It contradicts the Manga. Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There's no doubt that I can take care of trash like that." Dabura states Gohan was trash and he can easily beat him, he was toying with him so it was not an even fight at all. Gohan was unable to touch him. Dabura states Gohan is trash and can easily beat him and if Gohan was a SSJ2 so Dabura has to be at least close to SSJ2 Goku but he is way weaker than him. That's why he never even inflicted any damage to Buu's cacoon since Gohan was a SSJ and Dabura is not SSJ2 level at all. Herms even claim Gohan talked about the SSJ2 form when they inflicted a lot of damage to the cacoon implying Gohan was not SSJ2 according to Herms. Gohan was a SSJ is a Manga's fact. |
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May 25 2012, 03:26 PM Post #14 |
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There is zero proof he was a SSJ2. I showed why he was a SSJ. It's a Manga fact supported by Herms translation. H edidn't even have lightening and every SSJ2 has lightening in the Manga s Goku even explained the diffrence between SSJ to SSJ2 to Buu yet people still argue over it. |
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May 25 2012, 03:27 PM Post #15 |
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You're grasping at straws now. Just because it has some errors doesn't mean you can discredit the entire thing. And Daizenshuu 2 doesn't even list Kibito vs. Gohan as a battle. |
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