- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- Dragon Ball
- →
- Dragon Ball/Z Discussion
- →
- Controversy
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| Controversy; Troll Magnet | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 20 2012, 12:29 AM (2,807 Views) | |
| Winner777 | May 21 2012, 05:08 PM Post #31 |
|
No, but it is an assumption to say that the rule was still in effect at the EOZ World Tournament when the manga neither explicitly states it nor implies it through a character's action in the text. If AT meant for a SSJ rule to be in effect, he would have had a character mention it. Claiming "well, it would be redundant" isn't a strong argument at all, seeing as its been an entire saga since the tournament and it's likely the reader would have forgotten about that sort of thing. Point is, it wouldn't be something you skip. And if you're looking for in-universe reasons, taking the side of the SSJ rule is just silly. The initial rule was meant to maintain privacy, right? Well, both of the junior finalists broke the rule, and there was nobody asking them about it. Gohan near wrecked the stadium breaking it, and still, we don't see any media coming after them. Majin Vegeta flat out killed hundreds of people while SSJ, and STILL nobody bothered to asked a question about it. Thus, DBZ Earth is either stupid or simply doesn't care. Which means that the SSJ rule is pointless, and Goku/Vegeta would scrap it because it would make the fights less meaningful because they're not fighting at full power. Coupled with the fact that it wasn't even mentioned, it's safe to say it wasn't in effect. And here's the amusing part of this quote: it's balking at the claim that Goku is stupid enough to not pick up on the SSJ rule, but the argument it's trying to support later relies on the fact that Goku IS stupid enough to not notice that the general DBZ populace doesn't care enough about SSJ for the media to actually invade his private life. Contradiction much?  Note: By the way, I don't direct the emoticon and quote comment towards you personally Master of Dragon Ball, but that quote is sort of the crux of all EOZ overpowering arguments in general, which is more what I was directing them to. The argument. Edited by Winner777, May 21 2012, 05:10 PM.
|
 |
 
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 05:15 PM Post #32 |
|
Well.... Winner777 just summed up my argument perfectly. Any of you Base Goku (EoZ) ~ SSJ3 Goku (Boo Saga) enthusiasts care to chime in? Edited by GridZero, May 21 2012, 05:19 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 08:30 PM Post #33 |
|
Yes. Base Goku EOZ is, at minimum, much stronger than his SSJ2 self Boo Saga. Enraged Oob was stated to be stronger than Good Boo. Good Boo was much stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta, seeing how much better he did against Kid Boo than Vegeta did Base Goku EOZ was on par with Enraged Oob SSJ2 Vegeta Boo Saga ~ SSJ2 Goku Boo Saga << Good Boo <<< Enraged Oob ~ Base Goku EOZ |
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 08:42 PM Post #34 |
|
Enraged Oob was never stated to be equal to Good Boo. And I don't know where you got Enraged Oob ~ Base Goku (EoZ) either. We saw a half of a fight between the two, that's not enough to draw a conclusion about Enraged Oob's strength. |
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 09:25 PM Post #35 |
|
Herms Translation 1. Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P2.4-8 Context: Vegeta asks Goku why he’s entering the next Tenkaichi Budoukai Goku: “Because someone’s entering who seems incredible! I’ve had my eye on him for awhile, and he came to the tournament grounds this morning.” Vegeta: “What!? …I don’t feel any ki that strong…” Goku: “He’s completely suppressing his ki now. ..But somehow I can tell…that he’s definitely strong…” Vegeta: “…Hmph, are you joking? There’s no way a guy like that could exist…Don’t tell me he’s an alien!?” Goku: “Nope, he’s an Earthling.” Bulma: “Huh!? That’s impossible.” 2. Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5 Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.” Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?” 3. Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5 Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!” 4. Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P11.6-8 Goku: “He’s the one…While I’ve been training on my own, I’ve been waiting all this time for that kid to enter the tournament…[ ]…10 years ago, when that outrageously bad Majin Boo died, I made a wish…That this time, he be reborn as a good guy, so we could fight one-on-one…Apparently old man Enma Daio heard me, and pulled some strings on my behalf…” Goku thinks that Oob could beat Good Boo (quote 2), Goku says Oob is basically Majin Boo except as a good guy (quote 4), Goku is not at all disappointed in Oob's power and says he is as amazing as he thought he would be (quote 3) Fight Scans: http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?did=0-0-33&fpp=10&fid=227 http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?did=0-0-33&fpp=10&fid=228 http://comic.dragonballcn.com/list/gain_1.php?did=0-0-33&fpp=10&fid=229 I'll say it was a pretty even fight. And you can't say Oob just caught Goku off-guard, because of Goku's statement contradicts him not knowing how strong Oob would be: "He’s completely suppressing his ki now. ..But somehow I can tell…that he’s definitely strong…" And BTW, I don't even have Goku at SSJ3 tier by EOZ, just far above his SSJ2 self but not yet at his SSJ3 self Boo Saga. Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 21 2012, 09:32 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 09:39 PM Post #36 |
|
To be fair, if Goku thought that Oob ~ Kid Boo, then of course Oob would have a great chance of winning, since Kid Boo vs. Good Boo already happened, and Good Boo was owned. And to call it a fair fight is a bit generous to me still. Base Goku (EoZ) ~ SSJ2 Goku is much more plausible than Base Goku (EoZ) ~ SSJ3 Goku, but it still contradicts that Goku said he was going to use ''100%'' of his power against Oob, who is only supposed to be at Kid Boo level. (That's completely circumstantial and can't be proven/disproven) The problem being that SSJ3 would be complete overkill for Kid Boo if the above was true. And why Goku would refer to his base as ''100%'' is beyond me. Edited by GridZero, May 21 2012, 09:40 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 09:52 PM Post #37 |
|
Lol its FPSSJ Goku Cell games > Base Goku EoZ. I though this debate should be clear by now. |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 09:54 PM Post #38 |
|
Hmm. Well, if you at least believe that SSJ2 Goku Boo Saga ~ Base Goku EOZ is plausible with the evidence shown, then that's pretty much what I think, if Goku is not stronger than that. And you raise a good point with the whole Goku using his 100% power in base, so it probably puts him below his SSJ3 self. Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 21 2012, 09:55 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:00 PM Post #39 |
|
FPSSJ Goku Cell games > Base Goku EoZ seems a bit low, but SSJ2 Goku (Boo Saga) ~ Base Goku (EoZ) still seems a bit high to me, lol. Personally, I have (Initial) SSJ1 Goku (Boo Saga) ~ Base Goku (EoZ) with only SSJ2 Goku (EoZ) surpassing Boo Saga SSJ3 Goku. Edited by GridZero, May 21 2012, 10:01 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:17 PM Post #40 |
|
There's this formula that InterWebZ came up with, I'm searching for it right now... OK, I got it. The highest SSJ1 multiplier generally used is 50x base. In 10 years of training, for Goku to become as strong as SSJ self, we would use the formula: 50^(1/10) 1/10 for 10 years. 50 for the multiplier. Goku would have to get a whopping... 1.48x stronger (rounded) every year to eventually become as strong as his SSJ self. That is some very small progression. If you use the SEG multiplier of 400x for SSJ3, this would be: 400^(1/10) ~ 1.8x He'd only have to get 1.8x stronger every year to eventually be 400x stronger than his original self before the 10 years of training. It's hax, but not implausible. Hell, when I first came to DBZF, I had a huge SSJ3 multiplier (56,000x) 56000^(1/10) ~ 2.98 He'd only have to get about 3x stronger every year to make up for my ridiculously bloated multiplier (which I don't use anymore) Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 21 2012, 10:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:47 PM Post #41 |
|
wow, ok then...i know these are personal opinions, but...facts are facts, bias is bias. The op's whole first post is racked with youtube beliefs. |
  | |
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:50 PM Post #42 |
|
I liked the part where you called me biased and then did not offer any proof to back up your beliefs 
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:50 PM Post #43 |
|
I somewhat agree with Ninjap, but Toei logic is also brought into most of these controversial topics, and it just doesn't mix with manga logic, at all. |
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 10:52 PM Post #44 |
|
Which parts in particular were biased? Besides the Gogeta v Vegetto, I admit I may have been trolling on that one  @Ninjajp: I already know that you're against my placement of Broly and Gotenks, and I'm not arguing with you about it if you choose to outright ignore the manga statements for Gotenks or movie statements for Broly like you usually do. Edited by Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs, May 21 2012, 10:59 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21 2012, 11:03 PM Post #45 |
|
You know, I pretty much agree with everything the OP said. Although I find Base Vegetto > SSJ3 Gogeta to be a little ''out there,'' in the end, I do have Vegetto stronger than Gogeta because of the rival boost. |
|
|
|
| 0 users reading this topic | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:46 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy