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- *** EURO 2012 Topic ***
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| *** EURO 2012 Topic *** | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2012, 05:49 AM (10,520 Views) | |
| Mc Esse | Jun 25 2012, 01:15 AM Post #286 |
 
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I think Italy can actually win against Germany, obviously Germany has a better team BUT Italy's team is not that bad, probably the worst out of the final 4, but still a good contender. If Italy can play as a unit and if Pirlo and Balotteli can out class guys like Gomez, Buffon makes a few great saves. Italy's beating Germany. If Germany plays better, Germany will win.  .I hope its Italy vs Spain in the finals, then me and Ana can fight for more than just bragging rights this time. Anyhow, after the game there was a tailgate party down the street, it was pretty cool. Imagine we win the Euro, it's going to be MASSIVE. |
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| Copy_Ninja | Jun 25 2012, 02:55 AM Post #287 |
Novacane for the pain
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Lol, England going out in the quater finals in a penalty shootout. How utterly predictable. I'd have been sad for Italy if England won that actually. They totally dominated and deserved to go through. Hope they beat the Germans now and for it to be a Italy vs Portugal final
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| Fulgore | Jun 25 2012, 04:00 AM Post #288 |
The Darkness Returns
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Me and you Esse! TEAM ITALIA |
 Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| Pookie | Jun 25 2012, 02:09 PM Post #289 |
Pookie Powa!
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As much as that would be interesting, I don't think Italy has a chance against Germany. I don't think these days of rest will do them good. They just played a really long match. Germany is not going to sit back and defend like England because Germany has high class players who can attack. The only chance Italy has is if Germany is somehow rusty in the game because of the days rest. However, I don't see that happening. Spain and Portugal is going to be a tough game, but I think Spain can pull it off. Portugal will be no cakewalk. I am worried about Ronaldo in the Portugal game causing issues. However, we have many weapons we can use which makes Spain versatile. The fact that Spain beat France without a true Striker is ridiculous. We will see how del bosque approaches this game. Edited by Pookie, Jun 25 2012, 02:14 PM.
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| Mc Esse | Jun 25 2012, 02:53 PM Post #290 |
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I remember a few years ago Italy didn't have as good a team as they did today, and they played a Spaniard side who is just as good if not better than this German team, and they managed to bring Spain the distance. It's going to be a tough game, plus you were scared of France just because they had a good history against Spain, you think maybe the Germans are *****ting themselves because Germany never beat Italy in any tournament game. Italy still has a good team, it's not like they're as bad as Greece or Czech Rep. I'd say they're just as good a team as Portugal, seriously. Why couldn't Spain beat them on matchday 1? Don't use your excuses that was no friendly match. 
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| Pookie | Jun 25 2012, 03:50 PM Post #291 |
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Pookie Powa!
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It was the first game Mcesse. Spain lost to Switzerland in the first game in the World Cup 2010 1-0. Does that mean anything? No. IF you remember correctly, Spain when they put Torres in, they started to get a lot more chances against Italy in the first game. Oh and may I remind you that Italy scored first in that game. Spain did not panic and they came back to tie it with NO striker in the game may I remind you. Italy was ready to put 10 people on defense to defend the one goal and Spain broke them down. Italy likes to put 10 people on defense when it comes down to it and that's why Spain struggles with them. Italy was ready to defend that one goal lead. The fact that Spain was able to break an Italian defense that is notoriously known for keeping 1 goals leads just shows how good of a team Spain is. Spain is an attacking team so any counter attack can do them harm just like you saw with Di Natale, just like you saw with United States in the Confederation cup, and just like you saw with Switzerland. If Spain plays Italy again, I have no doubt in my mind that Spain will beat them and that's something I'm not known for. I usually doubt them. Italy was getting tired of chasing the ball against Spain in the first game and that takes it toll on you. If you watch the French game, it was the same case. French had its chances in the beginning, but towards the end they had nothing left. IF you watch the game again with Italy, Spain would have had their way with them if the game had kept going. Yes, Italy had their chances, but towards the end Torres was too much for them. He didn't put his chances in or else it would have been a different story. Del Bosque didn't make many more subs in that game. He could have put Pedro, Mata, Llorente, Negredo, who are all starters on their respective teams. Tell me who on Italy would be able to stop players like that ? As for German game, Italy is going to do what England did in this match. They are going to sit 10 people back, but this time Germany has a midfield that can do damage. They have a midfield and they have strikers that can put it in. Lets see if they can stop Gomez who is half Spanish. Edited by Pookie, Jun 25 2012, 04:03 PM.
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| Mc Esse | Jun 25 2012, 06:38 PM Post #292 |
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sorry Pookie but you"re wrong this time. Italy WAS known for putting 10 men on defense in the 90's and the 2000"s. The very reason Spain had no strikers for most of the game against Italy was because Italy had only 3 men back and 5 men in the midfield, which forced Spain to sacrifice strikers and move them back into the middle because Italy had trapped the game in the neutral zone. All tournament, I have not seen Italy get dominated in their zone, last game Italy scored first, and Spain scored only 3 minutes later. So you have no reason to say Italy tried to keep that 1 goal lead, because they didn't even have the chance. Plus they almost burried Spain at the end of the game, sure Spain had more chances that game but I thought Italy's chances were better. So again, how do you know Italy was ready to defend that one goal lead? Were you there next to the coach? They don't even have the proper defensement to play the way they did in the 90's and 00's. Now with Chielini injured, they aint playing that way. Notice the 20+ oppurtunities against England? I bet you even if Italy scored 1st, with all that talent they have up front they would not hold back. So what If it was only the first game, Every game counts, if you lose your first game, all of a sudden you down the hole 3 points, instead of having a 3 point cushion over some other teams. Edited by Mc Esse, Jun 25 2012, 06:43 PM.
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| Pookie | Jun 25 2012, 07:20 PM Post #293 |
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Pookie Powa!
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No, I think you're the one that is wrong this time. I watched the game again and I even had it recorded. Spain had the better chances towards the second part of the second half. When we put Torres in, the pace of the game changed dramatically and the Italians were tired from chasing the ball. It's how Spain plays. They may not demolish a team 4-0 , but they tire them out until they can put one in. It's exactly what happened against Croatia. Michael Ballack said it himself that Spain became that much better when they added Torres and Navas in. He said Spain would have eventually beaten Italy. Like I said Italy had their chances, but Spain overall is a better team. It was the first game where they are getting accustomed to playing with each other without David Villa and without Puyol. Spain lost to Switzerland and they ended up winning the world cup. Italy also had more to prove in the game because of them coming off a gambling scandal and fixing match scandal. I mean Italy tied with Croatia. What happened there ? You're going to say that they didn't do the same that they have always done. A team with 4 world cups and with their own unique play style? They still play like they used too. You can't compare the way England plays to the way Spain plays though. England will drop everyone back and play defensive while Spain does not. They play an offensive minded futbol game. Why do you think United States beat Spain in the confederations cup? They dropped everyone back and got the counter attack. United States made their one chance count even though Spain had a number of chances to put in. Italy has a striker by the name of Di Natale that can finish chances and he made that one chance count. Spain is not invincible, but you have to make those few chances count which Italy did. The thing that impressed me that game with Spain is that they got right back into the match just a few minutes after Italy scored. Italy still plays the same way that I've seen them play since I was little. They will attack, but once they get that goal they will be comfortable with it. They did it against Croatia. Italy will give Germany some competition, but overall I don't think they can beat Germany. Germany is not going to sit back like England and let them take shots on goal. Germany will attack and they have midfielders like khedira and ozil that can keep Pirlo at bay, who btw is your best player atm. Edited by Pookie, Jun 25 2012, 07:24 PM.
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| Fulgore | Jun 26 2012, 12:22 AM Post #294 |
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The Darkness Returns
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Italy beats Germany 2-1! I enjoy reading your back and forth btw. Good stuff. I learned some new stuff! Thanks Esse/Pookie Edited by Fulgore, Jun 26 2012, 12:23 AM.
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Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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| * Bex | Jun 26 2012, 10:26 AM Post #295 |
★ Bextreme Dream ★
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Mario Gomez doesn't play for Spain because the team is too difficult to get into >_> Also, I just looked him up, and he has said some inspiring things about gay rights and such for footballers. I have gained a lot of respect for him over the last few weeks. He might not be the most exciting player I've seen play but he evidently gets his goals some how, has an awesome haircut and he also has good morals. Come play for Manchester United plz Mario. Anyway, the way I see Italy vs. Germany, Italy don't have a chance. Reason being that England managed to hold them off for over 90 minutes (with luck of course) and the Italians only really showed certain qualities that they had that were better than England. It wasn't like England had no chances on goal, but for one thing the Italian's had more possession and a higher pass rate thus leading them to have more shots on goal, which is good no doubt, but the next problem is that this Italy side isn't like the ones we've seen in recent years, like the team that won the World Cup in 2006. There's no Totti, no Cannavaro, no Gattuso, no Zambrotta, none of these players although, luckily for them they do have Andrea Pirlo and Gianluigi Buffon on their side as well as some inspiring new players that I for one haven't necessarily encountered before. There's no doubt they are good, however when you look at Germany you realise that their oldest player is probably Miroslav Klose, and the next highest capped player you're looking at is probably Lukas Podolski and he's only 27/28 years old. The rest of their team is young and playing for some of the biggest clubs in the world. That's not to say that Italy don't have big clubs and big name players but when you're relying on Alessandro Diamanti (as opposed to Alessandro Del Piero) a former West Ham player, on scoring a penalty against England to get you through, there's going to be something amiss even if it isn't his penalty taking skill. I mean Diamanti is getting on a bit himself and he's not really played for even a top ranking Italian side as far as I know so the Italy team seems a little desperate for players, as the England team also was. Germany however aren't, and when you've got Lars Bender in your substitutes having had to leave his brother Sven Bender (who plays for German champions Borussia Dortmund) out of the side, you know they are a team with over-flowing talent which could possibly rival Spain. Portugal and Italy are no doubt good teams and their players have really impressed me this tournament, but I'd hope, and I have a hunch that the final will be Germany versus Spain. |
..:: Prepare for Trouble ~ | ~ And Make it Double! ::.. ..:: Most Improved GFXer - 2016 ~ | ~ Joint Most Meme-savvy - 2016 ::.. | |
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| * Light | Jun 26 2012, 10:55 AM Post #296 |
Yo
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I think Germany > Italy but I think the Italians have a chance. When arguing which teams have the strongest 11, Germany, Spain and Holland are the three contenders (I know Holland did terrible but there first 11 is impressive) and then squad depth goes to Germany and Spain by a margin. I agree with Mc Esse that Italy don't play as negatively as they're renowned for, they deploy much more attacking fullbacks despite there best fullback (Criscito) being left behind due to a police investigation. They play fairly flowing football in midfield, with Marchisio, De Rossi, Pirlo and Montolivo all being creative passing players, plus Cassano is one of the best playmaking strikers in the tournament. The Italy team that won the 06 tournament didn't deserve to (no disrespect Esse) Cannavaro had probably the greatest tournament I have ever seen from a defender, he was incredible and I think Italy do miss a player like him, who is so utterly competent in the art of defending that domination meant nothing against that side. England dropped deep so it meant the midfield trio of Marchisio Montolivo and Pirlo, coupled with England only playing two central midfielders, meant they had an incredible amount of room, against any German (or Spain) they will not only have less room but a lot less of the ball, Pirlo is a fantastic player on the ball and he's smart at interceptions, but other than De Rossi they will be spectators if Italy can't get on the ball. Although Italy tied with Croatia, Spain didn't impress against Croatia, I think that this is more of a testament to Croatia and their growth as a footballing nation, Croatia probably could have hung on for a draw against Spain, but they bought on Eduardo and Jelavic, two strikers, while Mandzukic was still on the pitch. Three strikers against Spain is suicide but they went all out. It's not the same Italy we all know (imo) they play a much more fluid system, with their defence being overshadowed by their midfield, plus with Di Natale and Giovinco on the bench, they have real depth upfront. If there best striker (G.Rossi) hadn't been injured I would even say they have one of the best strikeforces. I agree with Becca, in that it probably will be a Spain Germany final but I think Italy have shown they're one of the best sides in the tournament, although England vs Italy was sort of described as the match between the two defence masters, it was more England parking the bus, while Italy continued their metamorphosis into a true passing team, in the vein of Spain but without the tki taka system and a focus on long balls to fullbacks and strikers. Enjoyed reading all the comments, some interesting arguments. |
 
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| Mc Esse | Jun 26 2012, 11:51 PM Post #297 |
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No they don't. They used a 3-5-2 against Spain. Had Spain not sacrificed strikers for mids, Italy would have completley out passed spain in the midfield, that was the point for the strategy. So Spain wouldn't get engulfed by Italy's large midfield. Del Bosque outcoached Prandelli there. Plus if anything Spain's defense had their hands full alot, Cassano was constant threat in the offensive zone for the whole time he was on. Balotelli missed good chances, up until the end of the game Italy had great chances to score, they just couldn't finish their chances as well as the Spaniards were able to finish theirs. So what Spain had more chances, obviously the better team would have a higher chance of getting more scoring chances. I mean we had only 3 men back on the formation and one of them was a freaking midfielder! De Rossi, no wonder he made so many mistakes and giveaways on defense, he's not even used to that position! Up until before the 2000's, everyone selected on the Italian national team came from either Juve or AC Milan, everyone would play the same style of play, and all the forwards were trained to play defensivley. Nowadays our best two strikers play for English and Spanish clubs, you and I both know.. they ain't trained to defend. So what they tied 1-1 against Croatia, they had a bad game. Even the forwards weren't getting chances. Don't let the score fool you all the time, against England the score was 0-0. Had you not watched the gamew you'd assume Italy held back against England, I mean you're the one saying Italy plays defense all the time.
I don't watch soccer that much, but this is the first time I have heard someone say England is a defensive minded team. England, as far as I have known have always developed MUCH better forwards than defensemen. Between me and you, since were on that note when did England ever have a world class goalie? (This is strictly off topic* my question about the goalie...) Plus just watch the EPL, the English style of soccer is purely SCORE SCORE SCORE style!
Doesn't that remind you of the EPL. BTW FULGORE I'm glad you enjoy my soccer talks, funny because I don't even know much about soccer I'm a hockey fan. I only understand what I see. Edited by Mc Esse, Jun 27 2012, 12:00 AM.
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| Pookie | Jun 27 2012, 01:40 AM Post #298 |
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Pookie Powa!
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You're wrong about the English style of soccer. When Chelsea played Barcelona, they sat everyone back and waited for the counter attack like most teams do against teams like Spain or Barcelona. They do the same thing if they score a goal in the EPL and when there are two high class teams going at it like Manchester City or Liverpool. They also have many nationalities in the EPL so different styles are adapted. W I've been watching all the matches of the Eurocup and Italy hasn't impressed me as much as Germany or Portugal. The English team had no midfield that's why Italy was able to attack as much as they could. I don't think it's going to be the same case against Germany. If Italy is going to win, it's going to be an uphill battle. For one, the Italians just played 120 minutes of soccer with less break days than Germany. I think for argument sake that could help Italy because of the momentum, but Germany is a passing team. If Italy is tired in the game, they have no chance. The reason I say that is how do you think the game with Spain and Italy would have gone if we had put a striker in? I think Torres, with his pace, would have overwhelmed the back three leaving more space open for players like Iniesta, Xavi, and David Silva. The same goes with Germany. They have a striker named Gomez and a midfield that can contain Pirlo, who by the way has been your best player. As good as Buffon is, Gomez doesn't miss. The Germans have so many ways they can attack the Italians. I did watch the Italy game against England which is why I'm saying it's not going to be the same way against Germany. England has a great offense, a great defense, but they are lacking a midfielder who can keep the ball and pass it like Pirlo, Khedira, or Xabi Alonso, which is why they did bad against Italy. They were exhausted towards the end of the match because every time they got possession of the ball they gave it away due to the fact that they do not have a great midfield. Spain has never done well historically against Italy so that can play a role into why Italy did so well against them. I mean you can say what you want about the past is past, but those demons are always there. I was even surprised that Spain was able to beat France and leave all those terrible years of Henry grabbing his face behind. If that is the case against Germany, that may also help the Italians. However, as far as pure talent goes, Germany should and I feel will win against Italy. Either way, I'm worried about the game tomorrow and I'm stressing. It will not be an easy match against Portugal that is for sure. I'm really glad this competition only comes once every four years because I get nervous about these things. |
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| Copy_Ninja | Jun 27 2012, 04:10 AM Post #299 |
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Novacane for the pain
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England are defensive minded now, after we realised that our attack minded players can't reproduce their club form the national team. That's always been our problem, so we just stick to more defensive tactics, which is why we struggle against other teams that would prefer to sit back.
Joe Hart had the best save percentage in the EPL last season and was a part of the title winning side. He might not be world class right now but I think he's pretty close to it at least and he will be in the next couple of years.
I'm not too sure what you mean by that tbh. How many goals there are in a game depends on what teams are playing. It's quite diverse, some teams are very defensive and some attack a lot. Besides, most teams in the EPL are filled with non-English players anyway so it's not a great judge of english football. Edited by Copy_Ninja, Jun 27 2012, 04:11 AM.
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We'll never be those kids again
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| DSXIII | Jun 27 2012, 10:59 AM Post #300 |
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Maaaaaaaaaaan I wish I didn't have to work today. I would much rather stay home and watch the game................ maybe sip on some Heineken.. eat some chicken...... but noooooooooooooooooo I gotta go to a rat infested store and deal with dumb ***** people. 
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