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| Naruto | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 7 2012, 02:46 AM (858 Views) | |
| Billa | Apr 7 2012, 02:46 AM Post #1 |
Thala na Gethu!
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Im not a Naruto fan. I just recently bought a DVD set collection, and to some extent it entertains me, mainly humor, jutsu's, coolest 5 second fights ever, and thats all. The Biggest disadvnatge of the show is its flashbacks. Even die-hard Naruto fans could agree upon the fact that right in the mid-fight, just when all hopes are lost, Naruto gets soo damn pissed off, with some of the greatest animation sequences, right when Naruto is about to land a killer blow to Haku..Right there and then they had a loooong flashback...Is that it? In fact, I was drawn into the show, for its cast of characters, specifically Gaara, Rock Lee and Sasuke. Though, most of its characters are a bunch of jokers, its difficult to connect to them, mainly due to their extensive number of cast of characters. I really had high hopes and even the premise was promising for Gaara, just when it took a dip. I've always thought Naruto as a superfluos character, but after watchin the show, he convinced me that he isn't as what he was rumored to be..In fact, he doesn't impress me as a character or even made me to classify him in to the oceans of "steoreotypical" junk hero's, mainly for his lack of originality. His likin to fight, love for food, or even limited intelligence, though does not impede the proceedings, it just makes me hard to feel connected to him.. Same goes to others. Now, like Gaara, I was also interested in Neji as well as Hinata. Gaara had some of the greatest potential which surpasses Naruto's, plot-wise. Still, they hampered him. What about Neji. He bashed up Hinata, Naruto jumped in, touched her bloods, and "Your goin down", and he does. Really? I like Hinata, sorry, but I prefer shy/cute/soft-spoken girls in contrast to bitchy Sakura or Ino, but naruto doesn't even seem to realize the fact...or at least signs of love. Sakura bein the main character was just an embarrassment for she bein the boy-chaser, hass pratically no use. Some compare her to Bulma frm DBZ, but even Bulma doesn't exhibit the hate or dislike towards her peers, while closing an eye. For every fight durin the Chunin Exam, every fighter had a flashback, plus dragged out fights, and virtually mediocre fight/camerawork or choreography, with the worse bein Sakura vs Ino and 2nd bein Naruto vs Akamaru. Not to mention, almost every single character pronounce of about 10 times the word "jutsu", in 60 seconds, plus all the face-cuts, pan shots, starin contests, epic waanabe movements, the cooolest moves of the fight lasts at the max limit of 10 minutes sadly. I posted on Youtube and some fans approached me. No kidding. He mentioned this. "DBZ is a legend and classic. Every fight of Naruto is epic. Give it a try and watch it till the end of P1 for the epic Naruto vs Sasuke fight". I simply stopped watchin frm the Chunin Exam after readin the manga online as even the promising Naji and Gaara are pushed aside, I could simply predict that Naruto would definetly win the fight despite Sasuke being better talented, Naruto would win "SOMEHOW MIRACULUOSLY" to raise Naruto popularity in Jump's polls or to raise the manga's sales. Is that it? Sorry, but waatchin an already predictable fight provides nothin new in terms of novelty. EVen in DBZ, Saiyan Saga, of which DBZ's lowest production value, say its animation, art, etc, I was *****tin to know just what da heck would happen in the mid Goku-Vegeta battle. It was dead even. Same goes to Frieza. The moment He trashed oku like nothin, I simply gave up and thought, sorry buddy "he's sooo dead". Reversals after reversals, and thats what I feel a plot should be like. Plot being a series sellin point is a cheap bussiness technique for me. I understand Kishimoto's plot-devices such as Uchiha's blood, Orachimaru etc, but it does fade away soon. Kishimoto's plot that Sasuke bein naturally talented, yet somehow becomes an antagonist, and its up to Naruto, who's the only one capable enough to retrive Sasuke back, thus expectin fans to root for Naruto is simply cheap trick that wont do.. Even Goku frm DBZ had his down days. He lost tenkaichi budoukai twice, he lost against Cell, he lost to Majin Buu on various occasions. I mean, the lack of originality. I never intended to bash up the show or anything, I really wanna give it a try, I did, and it did draw me in, but before I could truely submerge myself into its world, all the negatives simply pushed to float me back, and thus, this is my review. Im not interested in the Likes, Dislikes or even the irks frm fanboys, just my opinion... |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 7 2012, 03:21 AM Post #2 |
 
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I respect your opinion, so I won't try maliciously to convert you or anything. I'll just give you what I think. I used to hate Naruto, but ObsessiveFanGirl was able to talk me into watching it. I'm glad she did. I really like the show (haven't read the manga). It's funny yet serious when it needs to be, and I don't remember any moments being ruined by either aspect seeping in unnecessarily. Unfortunately for me, Netflix removed everything from the Chunin Exam and earlier, and I wasn't finished with that part, so I've had to skip ahead to the Sasuke Retrieval stuff, which is pretty good still. I can agree with you about flashbacks. Holy cow, flashbacks, flashbacks, flashbacks. I like them most of the time, and they serve their purpose, but it does get really irritating when someone is about to land a death blow and I have to sit through five minutes of flashback before the fight continues. It also sucks when a really long flashback precedes a highly anticipated fight, so I have to wait until the next episode. Kakashi is my favorite character. He exudes brilliance and excellence. Gaara is right after him. I liked Sasuke in the beginning but he got a little overdone by the time he ran out of Hidden Leaf Village. Naruto is surprisingly OK. Sakura, I have mixed feelings on. I don't care about her backstory with Ino or anything, but she's a strong enough character for me to care about overall. I also like Temari, which I think I'm alone with. Rock Lee gets an admirable mention (his fights against Gaara, and alongside Gaara against Kimimoto were simply breathtaking), but Neji I can't stand. The show is great in general, in my opinion, disregarding various filler. I would say don't give up on it yet. There were some episodes I wanted to due to the overuse of flashbacks, and I admit I've fast-forwarded through fights that weren't interesting or didn't seem worth watching, but I still stuck through it and I think it's paying off. Edited by Pyrus, Apr 7 2012, 03:21 AM.
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| Copy_Ninja | Apr 7 2012, 03:35 AM Post #3 |
Novacane for the pain
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I'm not really sure what your saying here as some of your points are a little confusing. Ok, we'll start with the flashbacks. I definitely agree there, at the start of the Anime there are too many. However, that lessens later on so it's not too bad. Although, IIRC the flashbacks in the Naruto vs Haku fight were about Haku meeting Zabuza, which is a big plot point that you can't really take out. That was a well done scene as Haku realises that he can't help Zabuza anymore and that he's failing in what he thinks is his life purpose. But yeah, generally too many flashbacks. I don't think there's many jokers at all actually. You've got Gai, Lee and Naruto and not many more. Not really sure how you're interpreting them. Also, I don't get how you thought Neji and Gaara had bad treatment in the Chunnin exams, they were done really well. Also, I think you missed the point of Naruto beating Neji. It was all about the hard worker being able to beat the arrogant gifted genius, you know every dog has it's day and all that. Finally, Naruto fought Kiba, Akamaru is his dog... Characters having a flashback in the Chunnin Exams was to have development for the new guys. It gives everyone depth, rather than just "here's this new guy, watch them do this jutsu and then watch them go away!". It's called character development which is necessary. You're exaggerating with how often they say jutsu as well. You think Naruto fights don't have reversals like DBZ? LOL, sorry you musn't be watching these fights. Naruto vs Neji? Neji closes his chakra points and Naruto can't move, then he brings it back with Kyuubi chakra? That's not a reversal? What about when Temari has Shikamaru on the ropes the entire fight until his tactics win out in the end? Naruto's reversal against Kiba? Sasuke pulling out a win after getting destroyed by Horoi (might have spelled that wrong)? Kakashi against Zabuza after breaking out of the water prison? Sasuke and Naruto's whole fight against Haku? There's loads more examples if you keep watching. I don't want to get all fanboy like, but saying the fights are predictable is simply ignorant, especially when comparing them to DBZ fights. Also, you're prediction is wrong as Sasuke wins their fight.... He isn't expecting people to root for Naruto, that's not it. "Somehow becomes an antagonist" made me face palm. Sasuke's fall into the darkness was done gradually and done well. It wasn't some random change of heart you know... Naruto has lost plenty of fights, so i'm not sure what you are trying to get at there. I know you said you weren't interested in any of this, but we all have a right of rebuttal don't we?  I don't care that you don't like it, but some of your reasons seemed hard to follow and some I just didn't agree with. Edit: Sorry if any of this sounded offensive, I've been stressing over a uni assignment and I may have accidentally taken it out on you which I didn't mean to. Edited by Copy_Ninja, Apr 7 2012, 03:39 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Apr 7 2012, 03:44 AM Post #4 |
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I agree with pretty much all of this. Well said. It's not that we're trying to jump down your throat and say you're wrong. We just think you're exaggerating some things and giving up too easily without truly giving it a chance and understanding it. |
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Apr 8 2012, 05:47 AM Post #5 |
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I both hate and love the flashbacks. Most of them are done well and are necessary, but there are some that are just unnecessary and cringe worthy. Okay, so maybe I'm only thinking of one in particular... Danzo, anyone? ... I laughed so hard I cried. Sorry.  I respect your opinion, of course, but it seemed like a lot of your thoughts were rushed and not exactly true. Sasuke won the fight against Naruto, so obviously your prediction is wrong. Guess it's not really that predictable, is it? I say stick with it. Most people like Shippuden better. I don't, but who cares? I'm probably in the minority. Okay, I'm bored, so I'll analyze your post:
Hardly any of the characters are jokers. Maybe Gai and Lee? Aside from those two, there are the occasional comic quips, but nothing more. Naruto isn't really a joker either. Hmmm...
I love Naruto as a character, especially in Shippuden. I feel very connected to him now; I can relate to him on so many levels even though my personality is nothing like his. He has an intense love for his friends, which I admire, and he's gone through a lot of the same things that I have. Granted, I have a family, but still. I don't see how he's unrelateable or stereotypical, really.
Now, come on. You can't really complain about that. This isn't a Shojo, it's a Shonen, so the focus isn't going to be on the romance between the characters. It's about comraderie. Naruto does like Hinata, but his training and Ninja duties are more important to him than girls. Sure, he hits on Sakura, but that's because he's a boy and she's apparently a hot girl. That's what all boys do, right? He doesn't have time to focus on Hinata. Sakura gets better later on, as well.
Ehhh. No. You're wrong here. Like someone else in this thread already said, Sasuke didn't just somehow become an antagonist. And actually, Naruto's plot is a lot deeper than Dragon Ball's, but I'm not really going to get into that here. Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Apr 8 2012, 05:56 AM.
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| + Pyrus | Apr 8 2012, 06:21 AM Post #6 |
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 DBZ's plot is the whale at 1,000 meters. Naruto's plot is probably the angler fish at 8,000 meters. 
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| Billa | Apr 8 2012, 07:01 AM Post #7 |
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Thala na Gethu!
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Plot, Cast of characters, Characterizations, Humor, as well as some cool fight scenes. All these is actually what makes an anime, or to be even more specific, "shounen" genre anime to be as influential or as succesful as it aims to be. All my aforementioned points are inter-connected in a sense of depth, originality, substance & in short, the essence of an anime. Now, for example, OFGuy mentioned on DBZ's plot as well as Naruto's plot. Thats an opinion, of which everyone are entitled to. Nothin or no one could change one's perspectives or point of view on a particular choice. I'd take Death Note for an example. Its in a class of its own, in which it actually has a meaty plot for any reader to sink their teeths into. It does have flashbacks, even more so during the Light vs L mind-games. It has depth as well as good back-story which provides solid background for audiences on getting a step closer to the show. Now, Naruto. Plot or storyline in the sense of flashbacks, right before, after or in the mid-anticipated event, for the sake of adding characters depth or raising the plot value is child's play really. Inability to open-up a convincing character driven-story, added by the fact that each and every fighter having similar drive or motivation, without a complex dimension of perspectives wouldn't do any good. As I've mentioned, the perfect example was during the Chuunin Exam, the 2nd test specifically, everyone had the same drive on completin the task ASAP, with the only saving point being Gaara's perspectives, an unfortunately, a rather short fight scene. Now, if Im talkin about DBZ, Piccolo, a somewhat primary/secondary character during the Cell Saga is more than enough. I used to think he wass just there for the sake of the story, but as things unfolds, say during the Goku vs Cell match, both in the manga and anime, close-up shots of Piccolo are shown, a smart move of Toriyama. Makin us to think of what he might be thinkin, to analyze his reasoning abilities, as well as to anticipate his moves. Now, if I were to talk on Vegeta, he's one hell of a dynamic character, specifically in the Namek, Frieza, Android, all the way till the series conclusion. His mind-games, potentially the most universally liked character in DBZ, plus some excellent characterizations makes him a virtually awesome character, connectin to the audience/fans. DBZ's plot are mostly character-driven, particularly Frieza as well as Cell Saga. The Buu Saga stands out IMO with an actual substantial plot with Gohan's energy being stolen, Mark of the Warlock, Goku as well Vegeta's rematch, Buu's hatching, Supreme Kai, Gohan, & on top of all, Vegeta's final stand against a foe, his noble sacrifice being more than anyone could ask for. While the series focused all the while on Gohan, sudden reversals with Goku takin the spot-light, Vegeta returnin as a new hero, final conclusive battle, and in the end, journey continues... ] So, this is what I call as plot. Sure, not without its faults, fillers being one of them. But out of everythin I've said, I've also included the characterizations, some wide range of likeable cast of characters and action component exceptionally. I've watched the Chunin Exam, all the hype of Sasuke's first fight, damped by Sakura vs Ino and later Naruto's worst fight, and once again, the immensely promisin Gaara vs Rock Lee, easily one of the highlight sequences. My biggest complain isn't the draggin or even the flashbacks, but the hype generated, and inability to live up to it. I particularly feel Orachimaru as a joke at first, and later on, an actual quality character. Its not comparing, but I really prefer mean mother villians, and that guy was adequate, though some of the feel of Inuyasha villains persists... Edited by Billa, Apr 8 2012, 10:18 AM.
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| + Steve | Apr 8 2012, 09:36 AM Post #8 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
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If you're going to judge the whole series you're best watching some Shippuden too. It's a lot different, as said less flashbacks, the characters grow up(mainly Naruto) the fights are more crazy and in general its less of a kids show. I see why people get put off by Naruto because of it being kinda childish but its not like that now. Just wait for someone important to die it's done really well deaths are actually sad vompared to DBZ where it's always like YAY we can revive them again all the time! Its kinda hard to care because you know they'll come back anyway. It gets better as you go along you're probably better either reading the manga quickly or reading about fights etc and skip to the laat canon arc. Have you finished the whole chunin exams arc? What do you think of Orochimaru as a villain? |
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| Arkadom | Apr 8 2012, 01:48 PM Post #9 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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I think, like Steve, You are judging an entire series when You have not even bitten in yet, as You claim, most anime/manga have a meaty plot to sink Your teeth into, as far as You are, You havent even opened the packaging. Naruto has a very intricate plot that while slips at times, is much stronger and more relatable than any other. Sasuke was gradually pulled into darkness before even the series began, when You get to the valley of the end fight(If You are there now You should understand.) That Sasuke has been on this path for a very long time, and it only continues in shippuden. As for villains like Orochimaru, he is an iconic villain, as You will find, no matter what he is always there in some shape or form to hinder good and evil alike. There are many characters in Naruto that granted, You wont get in the initial series, They will seem bland, but They are really being set up for huge devlopment in shippuden. Take for example Kabuto, without spoiling anything, You will pick up from the first series that he is very deceptive and enigmatic, however, as shippuden goes on massive revelations occur, marking Kabuto as a very interesting character and mabye even a relatable one. Or Itachi, who has many a-twist in his story, even now, we still cant be entirely certain what we know about him is the truth. Many of the characters in Naruto start slow and really pick up later, however, character's like Lee and Neji seem to be forgotten later on, though They do seem to be struggling back into the big leagues. All I can say is, dont judge until You have caught up, a certain user tried to get me into one piece I for a long time and I decided against it as my initial impression didnt pass off well, over time though I started watching it more and its now my third favorite anime. Naruto is an anime that takes time to grow on You, and then sticks to You, Kishimoto never makes sudden changes to his characters, Sasuke never just instantly changes, he's always going in the same direction, Kabuto never had a set identity to begin with, so he can build any way he wants from that. As for emotional connection, I wont spoil anything, but there are some deaths later in the series You just wont be able to say You dont care about. Granted, in the manga no significant characters have died since the confining the jinchuriki arc, back in early-mid 2011. When You learn about the truth of the Kyuubi's attack on Konoha, or the truth about the Kyuubi, about the Uchiha massacre, about some things like simply Orochimaru's past, or Kakashi's past, You may understand the real depth of the story. Kishimoto has set up an entire plot before the series even began that he slowly untangles as You read, to some extent, it may even become mindblowing. |
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In these eyes of mine Spoiler: click to toggle Epic for Copy_Ninja
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| + Pyrus | Apr 8 2012, 04:13 PM Post #10 |
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Ye of little faith. That's what I am seeing here. Consider what DBZ would've been like if people thought the same way as you are about Naruto. |
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| Copy_Ninja | Apr 8 2012, 04:25 PM Post #11 |
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Novacane for the pain
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Sorry, but this is a ridiculous statement. Firstly, of course everyone had the same drive in the second exam, that's the point of the exam! They had a time limit, do you think everyone wanted to mess around with drawn out fights? Gaara was just a psychopath, that's the only reason he didn't care. Lol @ everyone having a similar drive. Let's see here, these are the drives for different people: Sasuke: Kill Itachi Naruto: Become Hokage Lee: Prove he can be a ninja while only using taijutsu Shikamaru: No drive at all Neji: Prove he's stronger than the main household Gaara: Validates his existence by killing people Sakura: So she doesn't fall behind her teammates Hinata: Live up to her clan's expectations and to impress Naruto I'm not even going to get into the thing about characters not driving the plot. |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 8 2012, 04:34 PM Post #12 |
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Characters have to drive the plot. That's kind of the point of them. |
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Apr 8 2012, 06:41 PM Post #13 |
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Naruto is more character-driven than Dragon Ball. That's a fact. I don't see how you could think otherwise. Sure, there is definitely some character development in Dragon Ball (and Z), but it's a fighting anime. It doesn't dwell on the character's pasts much - it focuses mostly on fighting and the comraderie between the characters. Naruto, however, focuses on the characters - how they began, what their initial goals were, how those goals changed, what made them what they are, etc. You just don't get that from Dragon Ball. Let me try to come up with a chart just in case you're visual like I am.  Dragon Ball: Son Goku: What we know about him prior to DB - he was raised by his "grandpa" Gohan in the wilderness and knows nothing of the outside world. Initial goals - none. He never has a main goal; he is simply an adventurer, making up his own short-term goals as the series goes along (finding the dragon balls, winning the world tournament, hanging out in the mountains, saving his friends, etc.) Who is he in the beginning? - a goofy little kid with limited knowledge of the outside world seeking adventure. Who is he in the end? - a goofy adult with more knowledge of the outside world seeking more adventure. Vegeta: What we know about him prior to Z - he was the prince of Saiyans and later became Frieza's henchman after his planet was destroyed. Initial goals - his goal is not clear at first because he seems to do only what Frieza tells him; however, it is later revealed that he wants to avenge the Saiyans and become more powerful than Goku. Who is he in the beginning? - a Saiyan seeking power no matter the costs; he will do anything to be better than Goku. Who is he in the end? - a friendly rival of Goku who still wants to be better than him. Naruto: Uzumaki Naruto: What we know about him prior to Naruto - he is an orphan, both of his parents having been killing when the Nine Tails attacked Konoha 12 years ago. He has lived alone for as long as he can remember, and he has always been shunned and mistreated by the villagers because he is the host of the Nine Tails. He has never had any true friends and seeks out attention by being the class clown and making a fool of himself. Initial goals - to become the Hokage, the leader of Konoha, and prove his worth to the villagers. He also wants to prove that he is just as strong as his teammates, and that he isn't the loser that the villagers think he is. Who is he in the beginning? - a prankster trying to prove his worth and earn the title of Hokage. He is an outcast, having lived his life with no parents or friends, and desperately wants to be accepted by the village. Once he forges bonds with those friends, he will do anything to protect them. Who is he in the end (current shippuden)? - a hero of the village, accepted by everyone as one of the strongest Ninja. He has formed bonds that willl last a lifetime, and his main goal is to bring back his best friend, Sasuke, to fulfill the promise he made to himself and to Sakura. He will protect his village at all costs even though the villagers used to shun him as a child. Sasuke: What we know about him prior to Naruto - he is the lone survivor of the Uchiha clan, arguable the strongest clan in Konoha and the surrounding nations. His entire clan was massacred by a certain man that he desperately wishes to kill. Even though he is aloof and usually keeps to himself, he is very popular among boys and girls his age and envied by many because of his heritage. He has no interest in friends, though. Initial goals - to avenge his clan by killing "a certain man" who is later revealed to be his brother Itachi. He will do anything to gain enough power to defeat him. Who is he in the beginning? - a genius ninja who wants to avenge his clan. He initially doesn't care for friendships, but eventually they become important to him, though not as important as his main goal. Who is he in the end (current Shippuden)? - a psycho whose main goal has entirely changed. *spoiler* He wants to destroy Konoha for turning against his clan and his brother and will kill anyone who gets in his way, even his friends. He is seemingly past the point of return, so lost in the darkness that no words will reach him. *spoiler* I obviously left out a lot because it's not like I can think of everything, but you should probably get the point by now. Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Apr 8 2012, 06:43 PM.
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| + Byakko | Apr 8 2012, 11:04 PM Post #14 |
I once gave a Kangaroo a heart-attack just by staring at it
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Like ObsessiveFanGuy, I'm not trying push my opinion on you, or anybody, it's just what I think. Here goes: I've followed Naruto for as long as I remember. I picked up the anime just as the Naruto vs Gaara fight was finishing and since then have switched to reading the manga. It is, in my opinion, the best Manga currently out and more in-depth, interesting, original, and thought-provoking than any other Manga or Anime I've seen, including Dragonball Z. It starts off slow, I agree. Although some of my favourite characters, like Jiraiya, aren't introduced until little later, I think that adds to the series' personality as a whole. Some characters get overshadowed in order for plot development *coughNejicough* but that's understandable, really. I said in another topic where we discussed the pros and cons of Naruto that the show is called Naruto for a reason, it'd be pointless to give the bajillion characters there are backstory. It'd be like having an hour on how Bulma's parents met. Naruto, like FanGirl said, grows to be a really interesting character, and you should give him a chance to grow. He's unique and completely himself. While some characters are flakey and switch their viewpoints consistently, others will hold true to themselves (Unlike Bleach, for example, where every character has a steadfast reason for EVERYTHING). I'm a hardcore fan of Naruto, despite all the problems with it *coughSasukeandSharingancough* and I've got a lot of trust in Kishimoto as a great, original writer who took what would otherwise be a typical Shounen manga and made it an astounding story. |
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GFX Portfolio Tumblr DeviantArt  Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'" | |
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| Arkadom | Apr 9 2012, 12:48 AM Post #15 |
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Bargle nawdle zouss
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Also, I'd like to point out, as OFGirl said: DB(Z) Is a FIGHTING anime. Naruto is a PLOT-DRIVEN anime. If You came from DB(Z) Expecting the same thing I dont blame You for not liking it so much, They are two entirely different worlds. |
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In these eyes of mine Spoiler: click to toggle Epic for Copy_Ninja
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