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- UK Government to 'watch' emails, web use, phone calls, texts etc
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| UK Government to 'watch' emails, web use, phone calls, texts etc | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 2 2012, 11:15 PM (1,602 Views) | |
| * Yu Narukami | Apr 2 2012, 11:15 PM Post #1 |
Izanagi!
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17576745 The Government plan to watch all of the things listed in the title. Their aim? ; "It is vital that police and security services are able to obtain communications data in certain circumstances to investigate serious crime and terrorism and to protect the public," I don't see how looking through an innocent bystander's private information is going to help investigate serious crime and terrorism. I have a few major issues in fact. Firstly, the wording of the statement. What exactly is a ''serious crime''? Various interpretations are possible and the context of the situation is vital; who gets to decide whether a crime is deemed as 'serious' or not? Secondly, it would be a grievous misuse of Government power to do this, it's impractical, it's expensive and it's completely useless. Somebody accurately made the analogy of this legislation ''adding more hay to the haystack in which you're trying to find a needle''. Sure, once in a while this proposed legislation may unveil a terrorist plot, but 99% of the time it's simply there to spy on the general public of the UK. It's intrusive and honestly, it's making me want to move out of the UK, even if it isn't confirmed yet. Your thoughts? |
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| + Pyrus | Apr 2 2012, 11:18 PM Post #2 |
 
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Rename your country China 2.0 because that's what it's turning into. In all seriousness, I agree with you. I don't live there, but it's not as if I don't think the U.S. government isn't doing the same thing in secret (paranoid). Nothing much you can do about it, though. |
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| CRYPTIC | Apr 2 2012, 11:18 PM Post #3 |
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Looks like another government systems going down the *****ter. |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Apr 2 2012, 11:26 PM Post #4 |
Formerly known as daman
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On its own I don't have any problem with it, but I do have a problem with how it could be abused to sabotage opposition protests/movements which pose no violent threat to the public, kind of like how the US PATRIOT Act has been used to move homeless people (okay not an opposition group), and used to close down non-violent anarchist websites. The UK does seem to be worse than the US when it comes to infringing on privacy. In the UK CCTV is everywhere. |
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kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz | |
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| + Pelador | Apr 2 2012, 11:31 PM Post #5 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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I read this story a few days ago. When you look at what they're actually allowed to look at, it really isn't as bad as some headlines are making it out to be. For instance, they can't read the content of e-mails or phone messages. They can only record times that the messages are sent and where they're coming from. Plus they also need a warrant just to do this. So I wouldn't worry too much about any 1984 type of law coming in. This is merely a more efficient way of data mining suspected criminals. You're not gonna have your e-mails read anytime soon. |
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| * Yu Narukami | Apr 2 2012, 11:35 PM Post #6 |
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Izanagi!
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I know that, it's just the fact they've done something like this is scary. And, like Wolf said, it's easily abusable. The Government aren't really as law-abiding as a lot of people see them, they'll find some way to completely abuse this proposed legislation if its passed |
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| + Pelador | Apr 2 2012, 11:54 PM Post #7 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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I disagree with your scepticism. I think they are mostly law abiding people. |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Apr 3 2012, 12:44 AM Post #8 |
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Formerly known as daman
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Tbf you are talking about the same politicians who allow the police to incite violence among political groups in order to arrest the members, or to belittle their cause by making them seem like violent extremists instead of informed people (eg at the Occupy protests undercover cops were seen and filmed shoving people before going back behind police lines, and the police sent in an undercover cop to infiltrate an environmentalist group and encourage them to rob the Ratcliffe-On-Soar power station in Nottinghamshire. edit: Not to mention a government which is quick to come to early conclusions and punish people based off them, such as in the case of the Nottingham University students who in 2008 got kicked out of uni and imprisoned for terror acts based on them just having a booklet on their desk with the word "Al-Queda" on it. Edited by TrunksinSwimmingTrunks, Apr 3 2012, 12:49 AM.
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kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz | |
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| Optimus Banana | Apr 3 2012, 12:58 AM Post #9 |
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Not too long ago they had "attractive" under cover cops instigate teens into getting them drugs. Then they arrest them. Totally not entrapment or anything 
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| InterWebZ | Apr 8 2012, 08:06 AM Post #10 |
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^^ Well you shouldn't be buying drugs for anyone, however "attractive" they are. I'd object to, say, lying to someone that counterfeit goods were legitimate, then busting them for buying counterfeit goods. However, buying drugs is always illegal and doesn't have the same excuse. Back on topic, although I'm not in the UK and not affected by this, I'd also be interested to see how they actually intend to pull off such a stunt in the first place. Actually recording and processing such a huge volume of information would be no mean feat, and I'd be amazed if they could actually do it. For instance, when you log into hotmail to send a message, the relevant protocols are pretty complicated, and you'd have to process the raw data for all the millions of emails sent. Unless you had the cooperation of the email server, not an easy task Think for a moment about how many bytes of data go through the UK every day. And they want to process all of it? |
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| Naruto-Gogeta | Apr 8 2012, 10:16 AM Post #11 |
Omega Shenron
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They were monitoring us already, they're just making it public now. Also, while I don't agree with this, I don't see another more efficient way of finding pedophiles and the like. |
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| InterWebZ | Apr 8 2012, 12:09 PM Post #12 |
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That's the problem- most serious child porn rings operate using heavily encrypted networks behind proxies and the like. Tracing these would be an extremely difficult undertaking with a blanket monitoring system. This is why it takes so long for police to find them now- they usually have to mount undercover operations to get into suspect websites before shutting them down. The government here in Australia was at on point considering introducing a China-esque filter here, but there was so much opposition it seems to have been quietly dropped (apparently they didn't have enough votes to get it through the Senate, and it has since not been mentioned). |
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| Meowth | Apr 8 2012, 02:47 PM Post #13 |
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Most? Maybe a few politicians are law abiding but most are fairly dodgey, fiddled expenses, paid for accsess and who knows what else. The law is a law of guilty until proven innocent, everybody is seen as a suspect because everybody can have their information freely accsessed and the argument some people put around is "I have nothing to hide", if that's the case, they must be very boring, everybody has something they don't want others to find or know about, even if it isn't criminal, these are people, not robots who would be monitoring it, do you really want the government to see all the Jun picutes I have linked you to?  InterWebZ makes another valid point, all the data that passes though, it would be hard to process it all and it would require ISPs and such to hold onto it for longer, something like 2 years I believe, normally, they don't keep it for that long, it takes up space, this counters Naruto-Gogetas post about them already monitoring us, if an ISP has to hold onto more information, they need bigger servers and who is going to pay for it? The other point is yeah, the average person who this would affect doesn't use secure browsing or disposable phones, you might catch a few people out but the majority of people will be those looking at pictures of Jun or reblogging stupid memes on Tumblr. The other thing is, a virus could force people onto illigal sites and suddenly they are flagged on the system, without actually wanting to go to such sites, they then have to prove that they didn't willingly visit those sites. It's a stupid law and the government wants to rush it through parliament because they know it'll face a lot of opposition. |
 
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| * Yu Narukami | Apr 8 2012, 02:53 PM Post #14 |
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Izanagi!
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It's so irritating. Conservatives criticise Labour for a controversial move. Then what? They propose a controversial move. The idea of people seeing who I was talking to on the phone and when is just scary, it's like Big Brother. Nobody should have the right to look through your private information, it's PRIVATE for a reason, and if you have nothing to hide (Most people do), then so what? You'd gladly have people look through all of your conversations and web usage? |
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| Meowth | Apr 8 2012, 03:11 PM Post #15 |
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Well yeah, but governments can be hypocritical like that. At the moment, they can look at someones communication and usage if they get a warrant/court approval to do so, the powers are already there to monitor someone who they suspect of something, but this extends to suspecting everybody. |
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