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MSSJ vs. FPSSJ
Topic Started: Mar 15 2012, 02:16 AM (2,267 Views)
Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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So, I've mentioned this in another thread of mine, but I just wanted to see what you guys think about it: MSSJ, or alternatively, 'Relaxed Super Saiyan', has power equal to that of the Super Saiyan. FPSSJ, however, is powering up while in MSSJ form, thereby going beyond the SSJ form. So basically, let's have a hypothetical Saiyan, Gallick:

Base Gallick: 10
SSJ Gallick: 100
Maximum power SSJ Gallick: 100
MSSJ Gallick: 100
FPSSJ Gallick (or, maximum power MSSJ Gallick): >100

This explains why Goku and Gohan could power up in MSSJ form, and it also explains how they got so much stronger than an ASSJ or USSJ, as they could power up beyond their SSJ power.
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Pylons
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So in a sense MSSJ became their new base because of how relaxed they were from learning to conserve energy while transformed and FPSSJ became their new SSJ.
Edited by Pylons, Mar 15 2012, 02:29 AM.
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Nimbo-Bimbo lord of all noobs
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sorairoday
Mar 15 2012, 02:28 AM
So in a sense MSSJ became their new base because of how relaxed they were from learning to conserve energy while transformed and FPSSJ became their new SSJ.
I actually couldn't have said it any better myself even though I just came up with this theory.
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Selsiuss
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Would a "Full Power Super Saiyan" be able to power up into the realm of Ascended or Ultra Super Saiyan power, then? Full Power Super Saiyan wasn't meant to surpass Ascended and Ultra in power, but remove the drawbacks from normal Ssj, so I think not.

I like to think of it as normal Ssj being a fixed multiplier, in that it is always a certain multiple of the Saiyan's max base ki, which is stressful and taxing on the body, but "Full Power Ssj" lets the Saiyan stay in Ssj form while suppressed, and going max power is not stressful and taxing.

Max Base: 10
Normal Ssj: 100(fixed)
Full Power Ssj: 100 or lower, even into negative numbers.
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Battle Power
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I have MSSJ being the same as base, but being able to power up to X10 like the normal transformation would, the main advantages are being able to control how much power to use and have no drain whatsoever.

I also have MSSJ gaining a X1,5 on base right after unlocking it, the same way the saiya-jin gains X5 on his base after transforming (SSJ) for the first time.
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Xfing
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Selsiuss
Mar 15 2012, 02:46 AM
Would a "Full Power Super Saiyan" be able to power up into the realm of Ascended or Ultra Super Saiyan power, then? Full Power Super Saiyan wasn't meant to surpass Ascended and Ultra in power, but remove the drawbacks from normal Ssj, so I think not.
Wrong. Ascended and Ultra are just developed versions of Super Saiyan, they are what happens if you make your body forcibly tolerate more power than it can take, that's why you get bulky and lose stamina fast. Mastered Super Saiyan makes the Saiyan completely used to the form and able to use it without strain, that's why he can power up to the maximum without getting bulky or losing stamina quickly. That's why no, a MSSJ can no longer go ASSJ or USSJ, there's no physical possibility.
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Xfing
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In other words: when you first obtain Super Saiyan,it unlocks only a fraction of the power it would have granted you if your body got used to it. You can tap into the remaining power by ascending to Grade 2 and then 3 (which gives you all of this power). This solution isn't good, though, as Grade 3 cannot be maintained for long and doesn't let your speed increase in proportion to the strength. The trick is to make your body so used to Super Saiyan that you're able to power up to the fullest extent with no adverse effects. A FPSSJ is just a Super Saiyan who doesn't spend any stamina on the transformation and his body can take an additional power increase, that's why he's able to unleash his full power without the swollen muscles.
Edited by Xfing, Mar 17 2012, 07:37 PM.
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Selsiuss
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I think of it as MSsj being equal to their base power, and FPSsj equal to max Super Saiyan, but weaker than Ascended or Ultra forms. Vegeta said, after Goku and Gohan exited the ROSAT, "They are super saiyans, but I don't feel the energy." that means their energy was not as large as what they thought a Ssj's energy should be. Basically, by being able to sustain Ssj with less energy, such as that of only their base form, the rest can go to fighting.

EDIT: Correction, Vegeta said that, not Piccolo.
Edited by Selsiuss, Jun 14 2012, 11:56 PM.
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* Crashbreaka
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^ I don't think that's right. Piccolo wouldn't have felt their energy because they were in an un-powered up state.
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Selsiuss
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crashbreaka
Jun 14 2012, 11:24 PM
^ I don't think that's right. Piccolo wouldn't have felt their energy because they were in an un-powered up state.
Note: Whatever I put in bold print, is what is in bold print in the manga.

DBZ Chapter 196: Emergence
Scene: Goku and Gohan come out of the time chamber. The reaction to them is as follows:
Vegeta: "What's happened to them?! They look like Super Saiyans, but I don't feel the energy! It's like... it's their natural state..."

Their energy doesn't feel like Super Saiyan, but their natural state. That means that they can sustain Super Saiyan at a level equal to their norm before powering up to max.

After Goku and Gohan leave and make a stop at Karin's tower, the following conversation occurs:

Tenshinhan: "I always thought it took a gigantic effort to stay in Super Saiyan state, but they looked so relaxed."
Piccolo: "They were Super Saiyans, without doubt. Somehow, though, they trained themselves to maintain that state as if it were their norm."
Trunks: "Then... does that mean... They'll undergo another huge transformation during battle?!"
Vegeta: "Fool! Where are your eyes?! Your ears?! They decided that this is their best combat state! If they get used to it, they'll minimize the strain on their bodies during battle!"

I suppose people like to use Trunks' statement of "undergoing another huge transformation" as proof of Mastered Super Saiyan being stronger than normal, but remember that Vegeta contradicts Trunks' assumption by saying "this is their best combat state!" To me, it's pretty clear that does not yield more power than unmastered Super Saiyan, let alone Grade 2 and 3, just an overall better Super Saiyan form than those.
Edited by Selsiuss, Jun 14 2012, 11:51 PM.
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Sasuke
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MSSJ is nothing more than Super Saiyan without the drain. So no MSSJ isn't really a higher form just a controlled state of a normally uncontrollable form.
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