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| Do Ghosts Exist or Not? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 24 2011, 10:23 AM (4,081 Views) | |
| SirParagon | Feb 18 2012, 04:02 AM Post #76 |
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1. An absence of knowledge does not create a null-zone where anything is possible, there is only one absolute truth. To state that we can 'never understand' an aspect of our universe is the same as giving up. Alternate dimensions where any craziness could be possible is an invalid argument, an instance is not a concept, a universal truth must encompass all of reality. One cannot say that there can be no absolute truth... because that in itself is an absolute truth statement. Nothing of any weight or merit can be said if truth is impossible. 2. The future potential of science cannot be used to pave our way back to ghosts and demons. Why? Science is a method, a process, not a specific theory or proposition, it builds on previous logic and discoveries. A big truth cannot be valid if the little truths which comprise it are false. The scientific method will always reject self-contradictory theories just as mathematics rejects the result of any equation that starts with 2+2 = 5. To suggest that a future discovery could completely overturn our existing paradigm is exactly the same as saying that all certainty is just primitive superstition. Stuff like ghosts, god, fairies, etc - they're all square circles, it does not matter how far science progresses or to what extent we search the universe, a square circle can never be valid. There is no way medical sciences will revert back to prescribing leeches, there is no way science can be used to validate ghosts. Most of what we already know is certainty. Just because we haven't finished the jigsaw puzzle yet doesn't mean we've placed the existing pieces down in the wrong place. Edited by SirParagon, Feb 18 2012, 04:06 AM.
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| sylentknyte | Feb 18 2012, 04:15 AM Post #77 |
 
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^ Fair enough. You seem like a smart guy, I'm not trying to convert you to my way of thinking. Just saying that the possibility is always there. |
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| SirParagon | Feb 18 2012, 04:30 AM Post #78 |
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Heh, and like I said, you're entitled to an opinion. I just like to encourage people to review their opinions. |
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Feb 18 2012, 04:56 AM Post #79 |
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Science is always changing. A few hundred years ago, you would be the guy claiming that everyone who believed that the earth was round was utterly false, or that there were no other planets in the universe. |
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| SirParagon | Feb 18 2012, 05:04 AM Post #80 |
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I already addressed that argument ^ |
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Feb 18 2012, 05:45 AM Post #81 |
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I don't buy into that. People back then thought that the earth being round was literally impossible, whereas dreams are possible and have always been known to be possible. You're just trying to make excuses to something that you personally think is stupid by ridiculing others. There are better ways to approach this topic. 
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| SirParagon | Feb 18 2012, 06:51 AM Post #82 |
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It's a matter of understanding what science actually is. |
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Feb 18 2012, 04:55 PM Post #83 |
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You simply don't understand that we do not know everything. It is your belief that everything we currently know is fact and will not be changed. Thousands of years ago, people worshiped the sun as a god. Trying to convince them anything else would have you labelled as insane. Just because there is some 'fact' we 'know' right now does not mean it will never be changed. Of course, I am impartial to the idea of ghosts. I'm unsure of whether they exist, leaning towards the side that they might. I am just saying that you need not to be close-minded. |
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Feb 18 2012, 06:19 PM Post #84 |
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That exactly. You're beginning to sound very close-minded and ridiculous, and you'll never convert others to your way of thinking like that. |
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Feb 18 2012, 06:34 PM Post #85 |
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Subjects like these tend to only be believed in only by faith. It's impossible to disprove this claim such is the same that is impossible to prove it objectivity. You just have to ask yourself whether or not his belief that can't be proven or disprove brings added wisdom or knowledge in your life. If it doesn't it's not rational to hold such beliefs. |
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| sylentknyte | Feb 18 2012, 08:17 PM Post #86 |
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I know people who have had ghostly experiences. Hell, I've had them myself. My aunt used to live in a pretty run-down house, that always had these strange things happen. Sometimes, you would feel like a presence was in the room with you. The animals would be afraid to go into the basement. Cupboards would open in the middle of the night, with no explanation. My cousin, who is now 21, told me that when he slept in the master bedroom one time, he saw a woman at the end of the bed. Now, he was a child at the time, so he could have imagined it. But still, plenty of adults had weird, unsettling experiences in that house. After my aunt moved out, she found out that a woman that lived there before her commited suicide in the basement. This has nothing to do with ghosts, but its still pretty creepy. A mother and her teenaged daughter moved in a while after my aunt lived there. Its a welfare-government house, so people move in and out of it. Anyways, the daughters boyfriend chopped her mother up with an axe, and proceeded to "forcefully sleep with" the daughter. She barely escaped the house, naked, and he was arrested. It seems like that house is basked in tradgedy, Edited by sylentknyte, Feb 18 2012, 08:18 PM.
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| SirParagon | Feb 18 2012, 11:30 PM Post #87 |
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Dismissing/ignoring sound arguments on the basis of 'you're being closed-minded' addresses nothing, it's just an ad hominem. I hope people grow to realize the error inherent within the magical null-zone of faith. I have rationally disproved the existence of ghosts and gods, yet many still persist claiming that such entities exist because they can neither be (empirically) proved or disproved. Even if I were not capable of logically disproving a claim, it would hold absolutely no significance. If I was to say I had a particular dream last night, what is there to gain proving it? What is there to lose disproving it? Nothing, it has zero impact on reality, completely meaningless. Like I said before, to claim what is essentially a common dream exists is the same as saying that which does not exist, exists. Consider this, if someone had no experience with ghost stories, the concept of a ghost simply did not exist within their mind - how would they react if you put them in the same circumstances as any ghost story? Very rationally. They would automatically assume a physical cause for something which was physically perceptible, to think a ghost created physical discord is the same as believing something occurred from nothing. I consider it an insult to suggest that a coincidental series of deaths which occurred within a particular house was due to a 'haunting' while ignoring the history and relationships of the people living in it. You might as well claim that the entire world is haunted because suicide and murders happen everywhere - it really makes no difference. Edited by SirParagon, Feb 19 2012, 12:07 AM.
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| sylentknyte | Feb 19 2012, 03:14 AM Post #88 |
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I don't think they're trying to say you have to follow their belief system. You're just being closed minded in the sense that you completely deny even the slightest possibility of Spirits being a reality. I believe in them, but at the same time I won't deny that your argument is the more rational one. Like Destiny said, these things rely on faith. We are basically having the argument atheism vs. Theism. It always leads to the same place, with neither side being able to prove the other wrong. I think where people make an error is when they completely deny beliefs that differ from theirs, which is what you're doing now. Saying that you've "proven" the nonexistence of spirits in this thread is laughable. You're just a random guy on a DBZ forum, saying he has dis-proven one of the worlds greatest mysteries. Calling Obessivefangirl "insane" for her beliefs, and in turn calling me insane for having the same beliefs, is also laughable. If you can disprove the existence of spirits, demons, and in turn, god, something that no other scientific mind before you has been able to disprove, then I will eat my words. But until then, respect other peoples beliefs. |
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| SirParagon | Feb 19 2012, 03:55 AM Post #89 |
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It's not hard to rationally disprove spirits, it's just impossible to empirically disprove them (just as it is impossible to empirically prove them), big difference. there's simply no way ghosts can exist if they are rationally invalid. Supporting the idea of ghosts is like accepting 1 + 1 = pancake then trying to justify the 'possibility' by claiming it can neither proved or disproved in the physical world. Empirical evidence is completely irrelevant if the rational proof does not hold up. I never directly called anyone insane. Edited by SirParagon, Feb 19 2012, 04:01 AM.
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Feb 19 2012, 07:11 PM Post #90 |
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I get what you're saying. It is a rational argument, of course, but it still will never be my belief. It's just like trying to tell me that God doesn't exist just because we never see him - it won't work on me. Why? Because my life and experiences say otherwise. No scientist has been able to disprove God or spirits for a reason. It's because neither of them can truly be disproved. They can be called irrational, but they can't wholly be disproved because science is constantly changing and we as humans are flawed creatures. We can never know everything, so some of us choose to rely on faith. If it's what makes a person happy, |
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