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| who is the strongest between those? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 17 2011, 09:13 AM (1,448 Views) | |
| Mihawk | Dec 18 2011, 11:58 PM Post #16 |
 
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But Tien never showed anything solid so he has no solid number inside DBZ. The tribeam things are all hype. If you use filler Krillin actually made Cell cry out in pain rather than Tien who just shortened his life using tribeam and send Cell downwards (just the nature of the attack, just like Kiekzan cuts through anything regardless of PL difference). |
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| Famicommander | Dec 19 2011, 12:01 AM Post #17 |
Jukebox hero
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How did Krillin get stronger after his fight with Recoome? He isn't a Saiyan, so recovering with the Senzu bean didn't do it. And he doesn't have any time to continue training. So where did this strength come from? He got his ***** kicked by Recoome, then he was revived, then he helped Gohan fight Ginyu in Goku's body, then the fight with Frieza happens. And again, even without filler nothing in the story ever indicates that Krillin is stronger than Tien except a single, off-hand comment that Yamcha made to cheer up Krillin's daughter. If you look at the entirety of my previous two posts that should be fairly clear. |
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| Famicommander | Dec 19 2011, 12:20 AM Post #18 |
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Jukebox hero
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Krillin, Gohan, and Vegeta vs Recoome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfCthUeFdzE Explain to me how Krillin gets stronger after this fight. Tien vs Burter and Jeice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2ntRqTRbMY I know this was filler, so ignore if you choose, because my argument stands without it,. First encounter with Android 20: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSNPVv1k9b8 (notice how Goku sends Krillin away and not Tien) Tien, Piccolo, Trunks, and Vegeta vs Android 17 and Android 18: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH5Wu3ibdkA Krillin vs Imperfect Cell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExtOaCfGILQ Krillin vs Semi-Perfect Cell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVE5d0tSzE0 Tien vs Semi-Perfect Cell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1krbsRnzWmQ Z fighters vs Cell Jrs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0SFBa10_6w Tien vs Super Buu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9bBMbbNlyI Ignore the filler if you want. I have no problem with that. But we KNOW based on scouter readings, the Daizenshuu, and The Evolution of Goku's Power Level that Tien is stronger than Krillin from the time he is introduced through the Saiyan Saga and NOTHING after that indicates Krillin is stronger. |
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| + Clearin | Dec 19 2011, 12:24 AM Post #19 |
 
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But Krillin's power is constantly growing from Guru's powerup, even during the fight with Freeza. No one knows exactly how strong he was by the end of it. Line from the Japanese Manga: Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5 Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…The squirt in particular hides so much inner strength that he doesn’t even know it himself…And I’m in the process of becoming what you’re afraid of: a Super Saiyan…!” |
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| Mihawk | Dec 19 2011, 12:54 AM Post #20 |
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Where does the Daizenshuu say that Tien is stronger? Goku and Tien aren't the same people? What the  Tien's power is moot point the entire manga other than the scouter reading. Krillin's power was shown at around 78k~ or something in a Shonen Jump magazine after the Guru powerup and then there's the fact that said that Krillin's power was constantly rising. Only human that was shown to have anything was Krillin, and that only in the Namek saga. The two times that Tien used Tribeam are all hype. First time it was the nature of the attack on Cell that always causes the ground to shift like that, and second time Buu admitted it was all hype so that's not even debatable. Believe it or not, there's no solid way to base Tien's power inside DBZ short of the scouter readings. The only two showings are all hype as admitted by Cell/Buu, but to another man they show that Tien is insanely strong. There is of course the canon statement by Yamcha that says that Krillin is stronger, and is the only real way to compare the two characters putting bias speculation aside. Edited by Mihawk, Dec 19 2011, 01:17 AM.
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| Sachiel | Dec 19 2011, 03:23 AM Post #21 |
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Tien>krillin>Yamcha |
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| Famicommander | Dec 19 2011, 04:30 AM Post #22 |
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Jukebox hero
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After Raditz is defeated Bulma's scouter reads Tien at 250 and Krillin at 206 (volume 18 of the manga, episode 8 of anime) . As cited in "The Evolution of Goku's Power Level" in Daizenshuu 7, during the fight with the Saibamen Tien has a power level of 1,830. Krillin's is stated by the same source to be at 1,770. Those are the last two official readings of either of their respective power levels. All we have to go on after that point is what we are shown, and every time Tien is clearly shown to be stronger. You keep saying that the Tri-Beam is "all hype", but it's still clearly an extremely powerful attack. No normal attack should have been able to do what it did to Cell. You can say it was the nature of the attack all you want, but it didn't move Super Buu a bit. So then why, again, did it repeatedly smash Cell downwards so that he couldn't escape? Further, that Tri-Beam deflected an energy blast from Super Buu. There's no way Tien should have been strong enough to deflect ANYTHING from Super Buu, but it saved Mr Satan and Dende's lives. So again, after the last two official readings on them, all we have to go on is what we see. And we see Tien consistently performing better than Krillin. In the manga Tien did much better against Cell, and in the anime Tien did leagues better against the Cell Jrs and Ginyu Force. We are shown Goku taking command of the situation when #20 nearly killed Yamcha. He named Krillin specifically to take Yamcha to heal, leaving Tien with the stronger fighters. When the rest of the Z fighters (including Tien) went to fight 17 and 18, Krillin stood paralyzed with fear. But once again, it all comes down to Cell. Krillin wasn't even able to affect Semi-Perfect Cell when he was about to absorb 18. Both Tien and Krillin had the same task at different points: keep Cell from absorbing 18. Tien succeeded, Krillin failed. After that, it should be pretty obvious who is stronger as Krillin basically retires whereas Tien continues training. Again -We know Tien is stronger in Dragon Ball. -We know Tien is stronger in the Saiyan saga due to Bulma's scounter and "The Evolution of Goku's Power Level" -We know Tien was much more effective against Semi-Cell. -We know Tien continues training after Krillin retires -We know that Goku sends Krillin away from the battle against 19 and 20. Why would Goku send Krillin and not Tien? -We know that Tien wasn't afraid to fight 17 and 18, whereas Krillin was. Could say more about their personalities than power, but I still think it's relevant -We know that in the manga, Krillin is the first to be taken out by the Cell Jrs. -We know that by the time Super Buu rolls around, Tien's at least strong enough to deflect Super Buu's attack meant to kill Dende and Satan, and Tien even manages to dodge an attack directed at him. Filler only: -Tien is much more effective against two members of the Ginyu Force than Krillin was against one. -Tien is the last to die in the Pendulum Room when he, Krillin, Chiaotzu and Yamcha fight against the illusion Saiyans -Tien does far better than Krillin or Yamcha against the Cell Jrs. Tien is shown being knocked down four separate times, meaning he was able to take the attacks and get back up. He also got a small amount of offense in, whereas Krillin just got kicked once and stayed down. -Krillin gets totally punked by Imperfect Cell. Everything the original manga and any anime filler lead us to believe shows us that Tien is the stronger warrior. |
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| Mihawk | Dec 19 2011, 05:04 AM Post #23 |
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I'll post later^. Don't feel like checking the manga chapters since they don't have titles right now. Although that seems to be the most solid thing I've heard from a Tien fan as of yet. |
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| + Clearin | Dec 19 2011, 12:11 PM Post #24 |
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Guide PLs aren't exactly 100% true. That same Guide lists Nappa at 4,000 and King Kai at 3,500 despite King Kai saying Nappa was faaar above him and Goku saying Nappa may take a while. It also lists Goku at 910, Goku was never 910 at any point in the series.
Tri-beam is stronger than Krillins strongest attack but it doesn't prove Tien is stronger as a whole. The only way we could accurately judge their power from the Tri-Beam is it they both mastered it to the exact same point, and both used it on the same enemy at full health. Otherwise the only thing this tells us is that Tien has stronger attacks than Krillin.
Krillin's last official reading is "Over 10,000" by the Ginyu Force.
All I see is Tien using Tri Beam twice, doesn't prove he's more powerful in general.
Tien never fought Cell in the manga, I don't count Tri-Beam spamming him as a fight. And Krillin only fought Perfect Cell in the manga, you can't compare the two.
Doesn't matter for a canon debate. If you're arguing for the anime then yes, Tien is stronger in the anime in the Cell Games saga.
There's many reasons for that: 1) Krillin was stronger and thus faster, Yamcha was nearly dead so they'd need to get him some help. 2) Goku just picked Krillin because he was closest 3) Goku just said a random name
Doesn't prove anything about Krillin's power at all except that Krillin is weaker than the Androids. Tien was beat in one hit, the exact same as Krillin would have been. All it proves is Tien is braver than Krillin.
Krillin didn't fight Semi-Perfect Cell in the manga... besides Krillin didn't try to use the Tri-Beam against Cell, so it's an invalid point either way.
Krillin was the first person we saw fight the Cell Jrs, as soon as it finishes showing us Krillin getting beat it cuts straight to Yamcha and then Tien getting beat.
Filler didn't happen, it can't be used as evidence in anything except the Anime. All you've really done is say Tien is strongest because he has Tri-Beam. If you're taking strongest attacks into account, sure, Tien is stronger than Krillin, but as a whole it's not possible to tell whose stronger after Krillin has his powerup and Tien had King Kai's training. |
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| sylentknyte | Dec 19 2011, 01:07 PM Post #25 |
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I'm totally with you Famicommander, with the exception of the Frieza saga. Krillen undoubtedly had a huge power increase from the Ginyu fight to the end of the Frieza fight. By the Android saga though, Tien passes him and never looks back. I also agree with the point about Goku sending Krillen back, and not Tien. Shows that he thought Tien could handle himself a lot better, since anyone could have taken Yamcha back. Right from Dragonball, Tien is always shown as being the dominate human character. Other examples you gave like Tien getting up against the Cell Jr.s, and jumping in to fight the androids show more about Tien's personality, and his pride as a warrior. I truly believe Tien has pride on the level of Vegeta, he is just too far outclassed to really do anything. But he actually helps when he gets the chance. |
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| + Pyrus | Dec 19 2011, 03:49 PM Post #26 |
 
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I agree with Teen GohanZ completely. Using the Shin Kikoho to say Tenshinhan is stronger than Krillin is a crappy argument. It'd be like saying Krillin was stronger than Tenshinhan during the Saiyan fight because his Kienzan would've killed Nappa while Tenshinhan's Kikoho was practically tanked by the guy. Bad logic. Edited by Pyrus, Dec 19 2011, 03:51 PM.
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| * Yu Narukami | Dec 19 2011, 05:52 PM Post #27 |
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Izanagi!
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I'll use logic in this. Krillin is strongest because he can Taiyoken and then Kienzan, attacks mean everything in fights, didn't you guys get the message 
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