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All out brawl
Topic Started: Dec 16 2011, 06:17 AM (1,731 Views)
NavonWise
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Realist Rapper Alive

I never said his power goes down drastically though, but it goes down a bit. Plus he just regenerated his arm, and he hadn't take much damage with Cell that time. With Goku we know for sure he would take damage. I mean it'll be a close fight, but I think Goku wins by at least 1 or 2 points.
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Mihawk
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Out of the Z fighters Goku or Piccolo. Or maybe Vegeta if he's in the cheating mood as he threw dust in Zarbon's eyes.

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DarkCore
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1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol
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Mihawk
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DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.

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illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
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Mihawk
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KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.

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DarkCore
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Still,on equal power levels,Goku and Vegeta fought completely equally,maybe even Vegeta had un upper hand,he seemed to get more hits on Goku,rewatch the fight and count it closely and see what I mean,its not by huge amount,but by like 5-10%

Anyway,you CAN'T put Vegeta below Goku on EQUAL power levels,sorry,but thats proven in their fight which I already

And why are you stating the obvious ? OFC main character will get the power advantage

"Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself. "

YEAH,thats why we see serious professional fighters that had to train alot like Fat Buu being stronger than guys like Tien/Piccolo/Vegeta who didn't train all their lives at all

/sarcasm off

That doesn't make sense at all,I'd go that far to call you a troll for saying this



Edited by DarkCore, Dec 16 2011, 11:55 PM.
Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol
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Mihawk
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DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 11:52 PM
Still,on equal power levels,Goku and Vegeta fought completely equally,maybe even Vegeta had un upper hand,he seemed to get more hits on Goku,rewatch the fight and count it closely and see what I mean,its not by huge amount,but by like 5-10%

Anyway,you CAN'T put Vegeta below Goku on EQUAL power levels,sorry,but thats proven in their fight which I already

And why are you stating the obvious ? OFC main character will get the power advantage
You don't know that for sure - Goku could have had lower PL and made it up with skill. And being able to gain power fast is part of your skill level. What's being discussed here is exactly that.

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DarkCore
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illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

Edited by DarkCore, Dec 17 2011, 12:04 AM.
Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol
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DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.
Just wanna butt in here and say that Cell didn't trick Vegeta. Cell told Vegeta outright that he would beat Vegeta if he became perfect and Vegeta let him.
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Mihawk
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DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

No you have it all wrong I'm not talking about unlocking SSJ or whatever, that's not an accurate representation of anything, that's just a representation of hidden power. I'm talking about the ability to gain power through training and Goku has always been one step ahead of Vegeta in terms of gaining power. Enjoy, right out of Vegeta's mouth:

Spoiler: click to toggle


"You're a better fighter than I am"

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DarkCore
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illstand1
Dec 17 2011, 12:15 AM
DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

No you have it all wrong I'm not talking about unlocking SSJ or whatever, that's not an accurate representation of anything, that's just a representation of hidden power. I'm talking about the ability to gain power through training and Goku has always been one step ahead of Vegeta in terms of gaining power. Enjoy, right out of Vegeta's mouth:

Spoiler: click to toggle


"You're a better fighter than I am"
yea,and you can enjoy something right out of my

khm,anyway I just wanted to note that Goku is a main character.If Puar was a main character,he'd go super and pwn everybody too,but this is a battle on equal power levels and Goku and Vegeta fought equally,if not even Vegeta a bit better(rewatch the fight closely to see what I mean)

still,Fat Buu proves your useless theory wrong anyway

"Just wanna butt in here and say that Cell didn't trick Vegeta. Cell told Vegeta outright that he would beat Vegeta if he became perfect and Vegeta let him."

Cell said that Vegeta may test true depths of his power on him if Vegeta let Cell to absorb 18
Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol
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Mihawk
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DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:25 AM
illstand1
Dec 17 2011, 12:15 AM
DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

No you have it all wrong I'm not talking about unlocking SSJ or whatever, that's not an accurate representation of anything, that's just a representation of hidden power. I'm talking about the ability to gain power through training and Goku has always been one step ahead of Vegeta in terms of gaining power. Enjoy, right out of Vegeta's mouth:

Spoiler: click to toggle


"You're a better fighter than I am"
yea,and you can enjoy something right out of my

khm,anyway I just wanted to note that Goku is a main character.If Puar was a main character,he'd go super and pwn everybody too,but this is a battle on equal power levels and Goku and Vegeta fought equally,if not even Vegeta a bit better(rewatch the fight closely to see what I mean)

still,Fat Buu proves your useless theory wrong anyway

"Just wanna butt in here and say that Cell didn't trick Vegeta. Cell told Vegeta outright that he would beat Vegeta if he became perfect and Vegeta let him."

Cell said that Vegeta may test true depths of his power on him if Vegeta let Cell to absorb 18
What? I was only saying that Goku is a better fighter? As noted by Vegeta? I was never denying that they were equal in the battle, I was just noting that Goku is a better fighter as stated by Vegeta. In fact if you remember I was the one arguing they were equal in that battle in the other thread.


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illstand1
Dec 17 2011, 12:15 AM
DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

No you have it all wrong I'm not talking about unlocking SSJ or whatever, that's not an accurate representation of anything, that's just a representation of hidden power. I'm talking about the ability to gain power through training and Goku has always been one step ahead of Vegeta in terms of gaining power. Enjoy, right out of Vegeta's mouth:

Spoiler: click to toggle


"You're a better fighter than I am"
That's an inaccurate fanslation.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: as Goku and Vegeta fight
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when yo-you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…”
Vegeta: “Yeah…At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”

Vegeta says Goku is a greater genius than him, not a better fighter.
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Mihawk
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Teen GohanZ
Dec 17 2011, 12:36 AM
illstand1
Dec 17 2011, 12:15 AM
DarkCore
Dec 17 2011, 12:01 AM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:50 PM
KingOfAllSaiyans
Dec 16 2011, 11:46 PM
illstand1
Dec 16 2011, 11:26 PM
DarkCore
Dec 16 2011, 10:51 PM
1st : Goku and Vegeta are equal,you can be denial as much as you want,but their Majin Vegeta vs SSj2 Goku fight proves it,and if anything Vegeta is better because he tricked Goku by exploiting his naivety

2nd : Piccolo,he isn't exactly on Goku/Vegeta level,but he is above others

3rd : Tien,Krillin,Gohan good trained fighters,not enough to beat higher ones though,be it experience,techniqes or anything

4th : Yamcha,self explaining :D

He had to use Majin boost. Goku didn't have to, he got it by training only and he still surpassed him. Goku is better than Vegeta whether you like it or not. Vegeta started off stronger than Goku since he got to train in rosat when Goku was sick, yet one day in rosat threw him milestones ahead of Vegeta (not to mention that Vegeta went in again and was still fodder).

As for skill level, I'm pretty sure it was emphasized by Toriyama that Goku would be the most skilled right from DragonBall to Z. There was an interview from AT too that says "Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist!"

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25858

I hear it's more of a rumor, but it doesn't make sense for someone to make such a long interview for no reason. Although Goku being the most skilled and only seeing his skill level reflected in Kid Buu should be obvious.
Yes Vegeta used the majin charm to gain power, but not skill. If they are of equal power than its clear based on the Buu saga fight that they are at the very least very close in skill.
Ability to gain power fast is a part of your skill level. Vegeta said that himself.
I'm sorry dude,but that just doesn't make sense,so many examples

See :

Gohan - goes ssj in time chamber just like that,then goes FPSSJ,then in such a short time ssj2 just by seeing an android that wanted to kill his father dying,all that for a guy who doesn't even *****ing like to fight,meanwhile Vegeta saw his SON die,a son that he ignored even though he would give his life for him,killed by a guy who tricked him in battle.Now THAT is a reason to go SSJ2,but Toriyama had to give Cell to Gohan because Vegeta is not main character and it isn't fitting for him to finish a villain

Then in buu saga Gohan goes from weak ssj2 level and no training at all in 7 years to Goku's ssj3 level just like that,while Vegeta was given only ssj2 in those 7 years,btw they didn't even bother to explain how Goku reached SSJ3

But now,to completely shut down your theory,2 words are enough to prove that Skill =/= power level

Fat Buu

No you have it all wrong I'm not talking about unlocking SSJ or whatever, that's not an accurate representation of anything, that's just a representation of hidden power. I'm talking about the ability to gain power through training and Goku has always been one step ahead of Vegeta in terms of gaining power. Enjoy, right out of Vegeta's mouth:

Spoiler: click to toggle


"You're a better fighter than I am"
That's an inaccurate fanslation.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: as Goku and Vegeta fight
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when yo-you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…”
Vegeta: “Yeah…At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”

Vegeta says Goku is a greater genius than him, not a better fighter.
Still supports what I'm saying either way. Toriyama made it obvious that Goku is the best fighter in the series barring Kid Buu.

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