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Dabura vs MSSJ Kid Gohan
Topic Started: Dec 16 2011, 02:36 AM (3,448 Views)
Illustrious
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Dec 18 2011, 07:52 AM
I see where you're coming from, but we still don't know exactly how strong Dabura is compared to Gohan. How much stronger are Vegeta and Goku at this point than MSSJ Kid Gohan?
Some people say that Goku doubled his power from the Cell Games, and that the gap between Vegeta and Goku is the same as it was back then, putting Vegeta a little above Gohan from the Cell Games.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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well, Goku stomps anyone in that ship. Probably all at once.

Gohan's stamina is next to derp, IMO. Training for Budokai does nothing when you've ran around in the forest chasing butterflies for 7 years. He can't maintain his power for very long. Other than that, he hasn't really gotten weaker.

Dabra believes it well enough that he would have been beaten if he fought them all, but he would have also fought Gohan and Kaioshin if not for Buu's revival. So, I have doubts about Dabra being so particularly overconfident even after fighting Gohan. I'm pretty sure his confidence is based off of enough deduction.

Vegeta would beat Dabra; I'm the guy who has Vegeta sizably enough over Cell Games Gohan for him to be confident about beating gohan and cell. Out of everything, Vegeta was missing his chance to fight Goku. Vegeta had actually though Dabra was strong enough, at least strong enough so, not to call him a clown, or debate with Goku on whether he was strong or as strong as Cell.

Gohan was an embarrassment to Vegeta, not because he had gotten weaker, but because he hadn't become any stronger within 7 years. Gohan had gone from being a goal to a waste of potential. Vegeta and Goku know that a Gohan who would have trained for 7 years would have ended this trip by himself.

Dabra was a plot's way to saying that Gohan had made any progress at all. Goku and Vegeta had moved on while Gohan was essentially still fighting Cell, and may have been the one and only thing he was good at.
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p123
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Dabura vs Gohan shows how they are compared to each other though Obsessive..


Illustrious, Gohan is called pathetic. THat doesn't imply a small gap...



Vegeta didn't know Goku had SSJ2 KP, and it could be argued the same for Goku not knowing Vegeta had SSJ2 based on his reactions to Vegeta powering up as well.



Rage Boost not used in this logic, Vegeta should be more or less on par with Kid Gohan...
Edited by p123, Dec 18 2011, 08:03 AM.
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p123
Dec 18 2011, 08:03 AM
Dabura vs Gohan shows how they are compared to each other though Obsessive..


Illustrious, Gohan is called pathetic. THat doesn't imply a small gap...



Vegeta didn't know Goku had SSJ2 KP, and it could be argued the same for Goku not knowing Vegeta had SSJ2 based on his reactions to Vegeta powering up as well.



Rage Boost not used in this logic, Vegeta should be more or less on par with Kid Gohan...
I was just using logic of the SSjin 2 believers.
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p123
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Ah ok, I figured that, but over here you don't troll much, your more serious, so I wasn't sure. Don't let those mod pants kill your style playa!
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Illustrious
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p123
Dec 18 2011, 08:03 AM
Dabura vs Gohan shows how they are compared to each other though Obsessive..


Illustrious, Gohan is called pathetic. THat doesn't imply a small gap...



Vegeta didn't know Goku had SSJ2 KP, and it could be argued the same for Goku not knowing Vegeta had SSJ2 based on his reactions to Vegeta powering up as well.



Rage Boost not used in this logic, Vegeta should be more or less on par with Kid Gohan...
That just means Vegeta would have to be closer to Goku and further above Kid Gohan.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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EDIT: oops, I made a mistake and posted the same post :3 XDDDDDDDDDD

well, Goku stomps anyone in that ship. Probably all at once.

Gohan's stamina is next to derp, IMO. Training for Budokai does nothing when you've ran around in the forest chasing butterflies for 7 years. He can't maintain his power for very long. Other than that, he hasn't really gotten weaker.

Dabra believes it well enough that he would have been beaten if he fought them all, but he would have also fought Gohan and Kaioshin if not for Buu's revival. So, I have doubts about Dabra being so particularly overconfident even after fighting Gohan. I'm pretty sure his confidence is based off of enough deduction.

Vegeta would beat Dabra; I'm the guy who has Vegeta sizably enough over Cell Games Gohan for him to be confident about beating gohan and cell. Out of everything, Vegeta was missing his chance to fight Goku. Vegeta had actually though Dabra was strong enough, at least strong enough so, not to call him a clown, or debate with Goku on whether he was strong or as strong as Cell.

Gohan was an embarrassment to Vegeta, not because he had gotten weaker, but because he hadn't become any stronger within 7 years. Gohan had gone from being a goal to a waste of potential. Vegeta and Goku know that a Gohan who would have trained for 7 years would have ended this trip by himself.

Dabra was a plot's way to saying that Gohan had made any progress at all. Goku and Vegeta had moved on while Gohan was essentially still fighting Cell, and may have been the one and only thing he was good at.
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Dec 18 2011, 08:13 AM.
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p123
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Vegeta states the gap hasn't changed, and sells his soul to close the gap. It's probably a sizeable gap... I don't think Vegeta should be too far ahead of Kid Gohan, when he talks about Goku's strength, he says stronger than Gohan was, implying that Vegeta was not stronger than Gohan was IMO..




Vegeta states that Gohan is weaker, once he says he was even better as a kid, the other time, states that SSJ2 Kid Gohan is FAR, FAR Better as a kid.

And he goes so far as to call Gohan pathetic.
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Illustrious
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p123
Dec 18 2011, 08:15 AM
Vegeta states the gap hasn't changed, and sells his soul to close the gap. It's probably a sizeable gap... I don't think Vegeta should be too far ahead of Kid Gohan, when he talks about Goku's strength, he says stronger than Gohan was, implying that Vegeta was not stronger than Gohan was IMO..




Vegeta states that Gohan is weaker, once he says he was even better as a kid, the other time, states that SSJ2 Kid Gohan is FAR, FAR Better as a kid.

And he goes so far as to call Gohan pathetic.
I have Goku getting at least 50% better over the 7 year gap, Gohan getting 10-15% worse and Vegeta getting just a smidge above Gohan from the Cell Games. I think that fits nicely.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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but Gohan isn't even fighting anyone at Budokai; he's just chilling in SSJ2. As a kid, he was implied to have been able to at least fool Cell well enough to have he believe that he stood a chance a full, or over full, strength, before Cell's return.

Gohan here was probably just beginning to show power.
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p123
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It's never suggested that Gohan's SSJ2 ki at the Budokai was misread or anything. Just because something happens once, doesn't make it the case all the time.

Gohan powers up to SSJ2 we get a power statement and that is all. Why complicate things?

But I can agree with the later statement being more accurate and closer to what the author intended.

But I think Kid Gohan ~ Vegeta seems suggested, so you gotta be carefull..

Honestly. This is probably best...


Kid Gohan = Vegeta > Powered Up Cell = Dabura >= Goku Cell = Gohan Buu

That probably is the best, and makes things super easy to do..
Edited by p123, Dec 18 2011, 08:34 AM.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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Yeah. Kaioshin was impressed with his strength after Budokai. So, the stuff before Budokai wasn't as impressive.

SO cute :333

Posted Image

Posted Image
PROUD? YOU BET I AM!


I wasn't trolling.
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Dec 18 2011, 08:36 AM.
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p123
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Just edited above. But yea, that comes later, and is likely what the author is feeling moreso...

I think this is cute..


Kid Gohan = Vegeta > Powered Up Cell = Dabura >= Goku Cell = Gohan

That;s nice and easy and simple ...
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Illustrious
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Kamikaze Pyro
Dec 18 2011, 07:54 AM
p123
Dec 18 2011, 07:49 AM
Gohan is considered pathetic. Gohan basically = Dabura. Vegeta would stomp Dabura because he can stomp Gohan. Goku can stomp Vegeta. See what I'm getting at?

Vegeta thinks Goku can beat Dabura, yet doesn't know Goku has SSJ2. Doesn't that end the debate right there? Also, Goku thinks Vegeta can beat Dabura, yet when Vegeta goes SSJ2, he is surprised.

That should solve everything right there.
No, no, clearly they knew the other had SSjin 2, they just didn't figure on the other's complete power.

=======

@Illustrious: I never implied it was 70%.

=======

@Obsessive: I think Goku is roughly double Gohan's power, and Vegeta is around 40% weaker than Goku, and 20-25% stronger than Gohan.
Yeah, but for Dabura to be in Semi-Perfect Cell's realm of power; Gohan would have to have lost at least 60-70% of it to be dead even with him. I also don't think Dabura's power up changed Dabura's ki a great deal, maybe 10-20% at most.
Edited by Illustrious, Dec 18 2011, 09:08 AM.
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Kamikaze Pyro
Dec 18 2011, 08:05 AM
I was just using logic of the SSjin 2 believers.
1) Really? I've never heard any SSj2 believer say that
2) Vegeta found out Goku was a SSj2 before they commented on Dabura being stronger than they fought
3) With a x2 SSj2 multiplier it's extremely easy to have SSj Goku > Dabura ~ SSj2 Gohan

I don't know about the whole Gohan getting weaker thing. I always placed him just below Goku at the Cell Games with much less skill since he's commented on being weaker at least 4 times iirc. Not sure what the guide books say though.
Either way my answer for the topic still stands, I think Dabura would stomp MSSj Kid Gohan.
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