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| Dabura vs MSSJ Kid Gohan | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 16 2011, 02:36 AM (3,449 Views) | |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:09 AM Post #46 |
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SSJ Gohan seemed to have a slight advantage on Powered Up Cell even with his real speed, the reason Goku is depending on Gohan to win, is because he realized Cell's real power , the reason Goku quit himself. Goku knows that Cell has a ton of power in reserve, and he knows that this is all a show for Cell, which is backed up with Cell telling Goku to take a sensu bean and not suggesting he would use one, and still being confident in taking Goku and Co on all even though fatigued.. Dabura was never toying with Gohan... That's Dabura's limit, and Dabura fighting that close with SSJ Gohan, is the reason why Goku thinks Dabura is stronger than he first thought. As in, Goku thought SSJ Gohan should be able to beat Dabura handidly prior to Dabura fighting SSJ Gohan.. Edited by p123, Dec 18 2011, 07:10 AM.
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| Illustrious | Dec 18 2011, 07:15 AM Post #47 |
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That doesn't mean that Gohan can't be marginally above Goku at the Cell Games. He put up a much better fight against Perfect Cell (Powered Up) and the only real reason he got beat up was because he didn't want to fight. Seven years later, he fights Dabura who's suggested to be around Cell's level of power but Gohan's slighly weaker than Dabura, similar to Goku vs Cell. Dabura said that Gohan was trash later on, and do you think if he wasn't holding back he'd say that? Edited by Illustrious, Dec 18 2011, 07:15 AM.
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Dec 18 2011, 07:15 AM Post #48 |
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I'm looking for evidence in the manga right now. I'll post it when I find it. |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:16 AM Post #49 |
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Gohan was stated to be above Goku. Gohan stated to be far , far weaker than he was as a kid, and then fights evenly with Dabura. Goku wasn't suggested to be far, far weaker than Gohan at the Cell Games, just weaker. |
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| Illustrious | Dec 18 2011, 07:19 AM Post #50 |
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It's implied that Goku was, in fact, a good lot below Gohan. He could barely touch Cell, yet Gohan knocks Cell off his feet with one kick, something Goku couldn't do. And as far as I can remember, Vegeta just said Gohan was better as a kid, not "far, far better as a kid". |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:23 AM Post #51 |
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Vegeta said that about SSJ2 Gohan. And then went on to say even better as a kid for SSJ Gohan. Depends on how you want to take that... It's possible that Goku Cell Games = Gohan ( vs Dabura ) so I won't argue that too much... But Dabura is not really anything special, he's MSSJ Tier, and low MSSJ Tier... |
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| Illustrious | Dec 18 2011, 07:26 AM Post #52 |
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Just like Perfect Cell (Powered Up) is low MSSJ-tier, meaning he may be equal to or slightly below Dabura. Edited by Illustrious, Dec 18 2011, 07:27 AM.
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Dec 18 2011, 07:27 AM Post #53 |
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I have all the evidence we need. Keep in mind that these translations aren't entirely legitimate, but I remember seeing pretty much the same thing in the actual manga:![]() Vegeta says "Gohan was stronger as a brat" not "Gohan was a whole lot stronger as a brat." There is no evidence here that suggest that Teen Gohan was a lot weaker than Kid Gohan. Judging from the way Vegeta says it, Teen Gohan really isn't that much weaker. ![]() Babidi implies that Dabura is simply toying with Gohan and isn't really trying. He says that if Majin Buu were there, he would finish them off. ![]() Dabura himself implies that he was toying with Gohan. He was only fighting him to see if he could gain some more information, not to finish them off himself. ![]() Dabura says he doesn't have to fight them anymore because he found the ideal foe for them. So yes, obviously Dabura was toying with Gohan, and Teen Gohan is not that much weaker than Kid Gohan. How much more evidence do you need before you'll discount your ridiculous theory? |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:40 AM Post #54 |
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Oy, this is going to be long... Yes Illustrious that is fine. Powered Up Cell = Dabura >= Goku Cell = Gohan Buu is totally acceptable and works out rather nicely. Nothing wrong with that... Obsessivefangirl Vegeta said that Gohan was far,far better as a kid when he turns SSJ2 at the Budokai. When he's fighting Dabura he says he was even better as a kid. Badibi isn't saying Dabura is toying. Badibi is just frustrated that Dabura can't beat him and doesn't understand why. Which is why he brings up Majin Buu, who would be stronger and easily handle them because he's much stronger than Dabura who can't get the job done himself. Dabura can't really get anything done against Gohan, and he hears all of Vegeta's evil bravado, and smiles to himself because he has found a suitable replacement for him as he can't get the job done himself. If he could, he wouldn't need a replacement, he would just be pwning. He is Badibi's slave, he can't afford to toy around on Badibi's time and piss him off... Vegeta says that Dabura is not so strong that he and Goku can't beat him. Vegeta and Goku both seem surprised that each other has Super Saiyan 2. Which raps this up... SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Goku would absoltuley stomp Dabura, SSJ2 is not needed for an opponent like him.. |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:46 AM Post #55 |
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I guess it's a matter of interpretation because that's definitely not how I read it. It was also never stated that they would stomp Dabura. Vegeta said that they could beat him, which was probably true, but he never said stomp or anything of the sort. -_- |
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| + Pyrus | Dec 18 2011, 07:47 AM Post #56 |
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Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.3 Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…” Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2 Context: as Dabra fights Gohan Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?” Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…” @Obsessive: Chapter: 448 (DBZ 254), P6.1-4 Context: after Kuririn and Piccolo are turned to stone Goku: “Well then, is there any way to return them to normal?!” Kaioshin: “Th…that’s [impossible]…As long as Dabra doesn’t die…” Goku: “Well then, there is a way, ain’t there? A simple way like that…!” Kaioshin: “Huh!?” Edited by Pyrus, Dec 18 2011, 07:47 AM.
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Dec 18 2011, 07:49 AM Post #57 |
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Gohan is considered pathetic. Gohan basically = Dabura. Vegeta would stomp Dabura because he can stomp Gohan. Goku can stomp Vegeta. See what I'm getting at? Vegeta thinks Goku can beat Dabura, yet doesn't know Goku has SSJ2. Doesn't that end the debate right there? Also, Goku thinks Vegeta can beat Dabura, yet when Vegeta goes SSJ2, he is surprised. That should solve everything right there. |
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| Illustrious | Dec 18 2011, 07:51 AM Post #58 |
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That still doesn't mean Gohan lost 70% of his power, like you originally implied. It means he lost a great deal of it, bringing him down to around his father's former level, which by that point is fodder. |
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Dec 18 2011, 07:52 AM Post #59 |
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I see where you're coming from, but we still don't know exactly how strong Dabura is compared to Gohan. How much stronger are Vegeta and Goku at this point than MSSJ Kid Gohan? |
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| + Pyrus | Dec 18 2011, 07:54 AM Post #60 |
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No, no, clearly they knew the other had SSjin 2, they just didn't figure on the other's complete power. ======= @Illustrious: I never implied it was 70%. ======= @Obsessive: I think Goku is roughly double Gohan's power, and Vegeta is around 40% weaker than Goku, and 20-25% stronger than Gohan. Edited by Pyrus, Dec 18 2011, 07:56 AM.
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