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goku vs vegeta
Topic Started: Dec 10 2011, 06:06 PM (1,755 Views)
Kblo247
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Teen GohanZ
Dec 11 2011, 09:20 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Dec 11 2011, 09:07 PM
nobody's ever sensed another form except Krillin.
I don't think Krillin sensed it, he could just tell from the way Trunks was acting.
Kuririn: “Just like you are, Trunks…[ ] I suppose Vegeta hasn’t noticed just due to the way he is, but I can tell somehow…You’re…restraining yourself for Vegeta…You’ve surpassed the wall which Vegeta couldn't overcome…Am I wrong?”
I know it isn't the manga but in Kai, Krillin basically says I am not as strong as you super saiyans are, but I sense true powers with the best of them, and you are clearly holding back your power

It was a character trait for him because he saw that Vegeta was stronger just watching hi. Watch Goku vs the Ginyus. He also saw that Gohan had far more potential than he knew about regardless of anger which is why he risked the trip to Guru in a calculated gamble to take out Vegeta. He also knew Piccolos power after fusing while the others were baffled and couldn't even recognize him.
Edited by Kblo247, Dec 12 2011, 01:04 AM.
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SuperSaiyan1993
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Super Saiyan among Super Saiyans

In Buu saga, you have to look at this from two different aspects. If Goku is allowed SSJ3 then he wns. The other aspect is the fight between ssj2 goku and majin vegeta. The entire fight was even from start to finish. However, I give Vegeta an extremely small edge. During the fight, he was almost constantly on the offensive, and there is no evidence to suggest that Goku "was letting Vegeta land hits" especially since he was trying not to get hit so majin buu wouldn't be awakened So in summary,

SSJ3 form allowed: Goku obviously

SSJ2: Vegeta
We Super Saiyans are in a league of our own.
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+ Pyrus
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supersaiyan1993
Dec 12 2011, 02:31 AM
In Buu saga, you have to look at this from two different aspects. If Goku is allowed SSJ3 then he wns. The other aspect is the fight between ssj2 goku and majin vegeta. The entire fight was even from start to finish. However, I give Vegeta an extremely small edge. During the fight, he was almost constantly on the offensive, and there is no evidence to suggest that Goku "was letting Vegeta land hits" especially since he was trying not to get hit so majin buu wouldn't be awakened So in summary,

SSJ3 form allowed: Goku obviously

SSJ2: Vegeta
And this is something people do not understand.
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Doggo Champion 2k17
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If it was regular SSJ2, Goku would win. Vegeta was using Majin and SSJ2, which gives him a greater bonus.
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Paikuan extreme
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Kamikaze Pyro
Dec 11 2011, 09:21 PM
Teen GohanZ
Dec 11 2011, 09:20 PM
Kamikaze Pyro
Dec 11 2011, 09:07 PM
nobody's ever sensed another form except Krillin.
I don't think Krillin sensed it, he could just tell from the way Trunks was acting.
Kuririn: “Just like you are, Trunks…[ ] I suppose Vegeta hasn’t noticed just due to the way he is, but I can tell somehow…You’re…restraining yourself for Vegeta…You’ve surpassed the wall which Vegeta couldn't overcome…Am I wrong?”
Then it just further proves my point. Thanks.
How does that prove your point to have krillin point out the obvious? trunks was stronger than his dad in both the assj and ussj forms, Goku and vegeta had a pretty good fight, but when you have a distracted goku ONLY caring about majin buu??? vegeta couldnt get goku to keep still who called for their fighting to stop, twice!! goku was amazed at vegetas technique and liked the fact he could keep up, but in the end? hes not beating goku, i thought that much was obvious.

You dont have to believe gokus power is deeper, just like i dint have to believe vegeta was on equal standing despite gokus deeper power, handle on the ssj2 form and hiding the power to go ssj3 in his pocket, which you keep trying to seperate, so riddle me this KP, WHy is it that if they maxed those forms out and were equal? how come they got stronger over time and training afterwards? why is it that by eoz? goku, vegeta and gohan would mop the floor with movie 10 broly? You cant honestly say that they were maxed out in their forms, when goku had already surpassed it and vegeta was straining to maintain it? it was obvious vegetas body wasnt used to the power and goku was distracted, like i sadi, if VEGETA was rhe true threat? he would have got handled and u know it, putting them at equal strength wont change that, neither will taking away gokus power like he cant use it to augment his form, cause you know, thats not what the transformations are for at all.... >_<
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DarkCore
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Vegeta beaten Goku in Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Goku fight when they were EQUAL in power by tricking him and exploiting Goku's naivety

sry Ninja ;(
Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol
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Nah, Goku's the best. He has SSjin 3 so he's automatically stronger than Vegeta, despite every statement saying otherwise...
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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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Popcorn

''Vegeta beaten Goku in Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Goku fight when they were EQUAL in power by tricking him and exploiting Goku's naivety''

that would never happen again if vegeta wanted to win for real , a clean fight

cause if they fought and he did that again he'd know deep down that he never beat goku 1 vs one cleanly and that would haunt him for ever


as for this topic its very arguable , some say goku was distracted or that he had some more

power or vegeta didn't fight clean in the end its all just a matter of opinion
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Mihawk
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I can't believe anyone seriously believes that the fight between SSJ2 (Ethereal) Goku vs SSJ2 (Majin) Vegeta was not completely equal. It's a clear cut concept that doesn't need to be debated. Most guides have them exactly equal in PL not even one PL up or down.

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Doggo Champion 2k17
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You are correct, illstand. They were exactly equal. This isn't even debateable. A lot of people are thinking too far into this.

In the grand scheme of things, Goku was stronger than Vegeta because he had achieved SSJ3. And sure, if Vegeta had never had the Majin power-up, his SSJ2 form would have been weaker than Goku's. Here's a little something for you visual people:

SSJ2 Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta < SSJ2 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta <<< SSJ3 Goku
SSJ Vegeta < SSJ Goku

Since it isn't exactly clear how much stronger SSJ and SSJ2 Goku is than SSJ and SSJ2 Vegeta, I made them pretty close in power. Hope this is okay. I am not looking at the manga as reference at the moment. I also did not include MSSJ Goku because it is still debateable whether Vegeta achieved MSSJ or not. I left it as regular SSJ.

Hope this helped make things more definite. If someone still disagrees with this, I'd really like to hear their reasons. Preferably excerpts from the manga or something; I will admit that I haven't referred to it in a long while.
Edited by Doggo Champion 2k17, Dec 13 2011, 02:51 AM.
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ObsessiveFanGirl
Dec 13 2011, 02:50 AM
You are correct, illstand. They were exactly equal. This isn't even debateable. A lot of people are thinking too far into this.

In the grand scheme of things, Goku was stronger than Vegeta because he had achieved SSJ3. And sure, if Vegeta had never had the Majin power-up, his SSJ2 form would have been weaker than Goku's. Here's a little something for you visual people:

SSJ2 Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta < SSJ2 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta <<< SSJ3 Goku
SSJ Vegeta < SSJ Goku

Since it isn't exactly clear how much stronger SSJ and SSJ2 Goku is than SSJ and SSJ2 Vegeta, I made them pretty close in power. Hope this is okay. I am not looking at the manga as reference at the moment. I also did not include MSSJ Goku because it is still debateable whether Vegeta achieved MSSJ or not. I left it as regular SSJ.

Hope this helped make things more definite. If someone still disagrees with this, I'd really like to hear their reasons. Preferably excerpts from the manga or something; I will admit that I haven't referred to it in a long while.
Yeah it really isnt debateable at all.

Although I do think that Vegeta was MSSJ, because imo you have to Master one form of SSJ before continuing onto the next.
Edited by KingOfAllSaiyans, Dec 13 2011, 03:01 AM.
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Doggo Champion 2k17
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^^^

Good point. I agree that Vegeta was probably a MSSJ. Why would he not master it after seeing how powerful Goku became after doing so? But for the sake of preventing another debate, I purposely left it as is. ^^
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Paikuan extreme
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Those guides were made by fans, toei barely batted an eye at the mistakes between them, and akira didnt even contribute to them. Believe what you want, there isnt any way those two could REALLY be on equal terms in power for the ssj2 form. Pl levels werent even thought of WHEN they made this fight, so a fan made book saying they are even doesnt convince me. It was a good fight, but its obvious goku had an advantage, doesnt matter HOW bad you wanted vegeta to win. Anyone watching the anime could see goku would win, manga same thing.

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Copy_Ninja
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DarkCore
Dec 12 2011, 10:04 PM
Vegeta beaten Goku in Majin Vegeta vs SSJ2 Goku fight when they were EQUAL in power by tricking him and exploiting Goku's naivety

sry Ninja ;(
It'd be unfair to say Vegeta won. Goku wasn't fighting anymore and Vegeta only knocked him out so he wouldn't interfere, not so he could win the fight. He even says himself that the fight isn't over.

I really think that if Goku had more power in SSJ2 he'd have used it. He was aware that his damage was going to Buu, but that going SSJ3 was too much of a risk. If he had more he'd have finished off Vegeta quickly, but he didn't (in my view). They were even after Vegeta sold out for Majin.

I thinj that Goku wins in Frieza, Cell, Cell Games, Buu ( when Vegeta is pre Majin) sagas. Vegeta wins in Android and Saiyan Saga, with them drawing post Majin.
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+ Pyrus
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Exactly. In the beginning of the fight, Goku said he'd have to finish this quickly so Boo wasn't revived. If he was holding back power in SSjin 2, he would've been a liar, yet nothing was ever said to contradict this notion. If he was holding back power in SSjin 2, why was he so surprised that Vegeta matched his and that it "wouldn't be as easy" as he thought? If he was holding back power, he could've just upped his game and knocked Vegeta out.
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