Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Rotation Advertisements



We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.


If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.


Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk


If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
Your ThoughtZ: Suppressing Super Saiyan Power
Topic Started: Nov 29 2011, 03:00 AM (1,546 Views)
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


Your ThoughtZ
Suppressing Super Saiyan Power


We know that the Saiyans came to control the Super Saiyan state. Also, by the arrival of Kid Buu, we learn that Super Saiyan 3 power was incredibly hard to maintain. So, I'm basically addressing Super Saiyan 2 in this topic.

Though filler-induced, above vid gives a decent idea of how Super Saiyan 2 power compared to the strongest fighters in the manga. Gohan was able to maintain complete control of the battle, as well as his power. Which leads me to raises a few points.

  • Cell thought that, at full strength, he would have, at the least, closed the gap in power that he and Gohan shared
  • Gohan handles Cell even after Cell powers up fully.
  • Gohan using the Kamehameha to defeat Cell is the closest thing to call Gohan's full power.

This infers suppression at Super Saiyan 2; maybe Gohan's pulling something like this:


But exactly how much is he suppressing?

Do you really think that Gohan on Babidi's Ship was weaker than Gohan (regardless of was state he was in) at Cell or is it that Gohan just could not reach full power; in short, was it suppressed?


My Thoughts

No duh...

Of course, though the logic behind it is legit, the actual numbers are pure spec. But yeah, in that topic, I used SEG as basis. SSJ2 would max at twice of SSJ max. Since Cell believed that he'd match Gohan with full strength, I infer that Gohan wasn't at Full Power, and had probably not even begun to show strength.

I gave an A1SSJ like boost as a bare min; Gohan had already been stronger than everyone else, and an A1SSJ boost would have gotten everyone's attention, especially if it didn't come with the previously mentioned energy drain.

statesuppress output (base)max output (base)
Full Power Super Saiyan> 050
Super Saiyan 265100

It's possible that, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (allegedly) at Dabura simply couldn't reached max out and was maybe around 85-90 bases...

Yeah. And Super Saiyan 3 was just a beast to handle regardless, so I assumed that it did leave much for suppression.

statesuppress output (base)max output (base)
Super Saiyan 3398400

Your ThoughtZ?
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wolf
Member Avatar
Shadow Realm >

I swear everytime I see a post from you it's some elaborate explanation of something I would of never thought of. Very smart bro.
Posted Image

me&dingo

Shadow Realms Future
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


Broskey
Nov 29 2011, 03:02 AM
I swear everytime I see a post from you it's some elaborate explanation of something I would of never thought of. Very smart bro.
I call it "trying to do homework... see how that works out :) . (mins later) Posting on DBZF. Seemingly easier to do than homework..."

Schway thanks, bro.
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Nov 29 2011, 06:42 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Illustrious
Default Avatar


I think SSJ2 Gohan was suppressed in his battle against Perfect Cell, or at least masking it and using a greater portion of power when he really needed it. When Super Perfect Cell arrived, he was vastly superior to SSJ2's Gohan suppression, so he was confident. Little did he know that Gohan had a lot more power hidden away.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Copy_Ninja
Member Avatar
Novacane for the pain

Makes sense to me and it's definitely possible. I honestly think Gohan didn't lose too much power, he was just unable to reach that max again. His powers have always been shown to rely on his emotions and he didn't actually have that trigger against Dabura (if he was SSJ2 at all). I think if he had to watch people he cared for getting basically tortured again, he could get pretty close to his Cell Games power.
Posted ImageWe'll never be those kids again
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


Illustrious
 
I think SSJ2 Gohan was suppressed in his battle against Perfect Cell, or at least masking it and using a greater portion of power when he really needed it. When Super Perfect Cell arrived, he was vastly superior to SSJ2's Gohan suppression, so he was confident. Little did he know that Gohan had a lot more power hidden away.
Luke!
 
Makes sense to me and it's definitely possible. I honestly think Gohan didn't lose too much power, he was just unable to reach that max again. His powers have always been shown to rely on his emotions and he didn't actually have that trigger against Dabura (if he was SSJ2 at all). I think if he had to watch people he cared for getting basically tortured again, he could get pretty close to his Cell Games power.

I agree with that. This is how I've seen the Cell Games powers.

SEG
110% is advantage
121% is definitive win

fighterpower
SSJ Goku100
Perfect Cell (at Goku)110
SSJ Gohan120

Cell and Goku are nearly equal with Cell at slight advantage. Gohan calls them out on, but Goku says "NO JOKEZ." And then Gohan says "-_-; ... but I don't a fighter. don't huggles, Cell. I go gets Seruphim."

fighterpower
SSJ2 Gohan (Initial Power)156

= 120 * 1.3
Perfect Cell (100%)165

= 110 * 1.5
SSJ2 Gohan (at Full Power Cell)203

~ 120 * 1.69
= 156 * 1.30

I use a min 1.3 factor for A1SSJ; min 1.69 (1.3 * 1.3) for A2SSJ. As stated in my first post, Gohan with a A1SSJ up is like Raptor Jesus. But Cell says Raptor God and ups, which means that I pretty much think that, up until now, he has gotten by with using no more than 2/3 power.

Gohan's Counter Kamehameha and his subsequent assault easily overtakes Cell's power. So I used a A2SSJ up to his SSJ.

fighterpower
Perfect Cell (Power Weighted)279

~ 165 * 1.69
Super Perfect Cell215
SSJ2 Gohan240

By here, it's self-explanatory. Cell bulks, so I give his full power a A2SSJ up, but he's probably draining energy and is now slow enough to dodge. I'm thinking Gohan pulls a Goku and uses a Full Power Kick that lasts for a split second.

Afterwards, Cell blows his load, and comes back 4moar.

Aside from minutia that would surprisingly start 5 page arguments, I'd call it somewhat accurate (SEG).
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Nov 29 2011, 04:12 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cocoman
Member Avatar
Badabing!

They couldn't even suppress SSjin until they mastered it.
How do people come to the conclusion that SSjin2 and SSjin3 could be suppressed?
Posted Image
Tony Soprano
 
I'm the mother *****in *****in one who calls the shots.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


Cocoman
Nov 29 2011, 04:12 AM
They couldn't even suppress SSjin until they mastered it.
How do people come to the conclusion that SSjin2 and SSjin3 could be suppressed?
So, I take it you're not for suppression in SSJ2...

Well, I didn't say SSJ3 could be suppressed.

I don't think it's outlandish to think that SSJ2 is partly suppressible, especially since Goku and Gohan put in the work to control SSJ, unless it's another 10* to 50* boost. If I raise my stats to handle a *50 increase, then a stacked *2 shouldn't be nearly as bad to handle.

That, and the fact that Cell thought he'd be able to catch Gohan's power with Full Power, Power Weighting, etc...
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Nov 29 2011, 04:21 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


It comes down to if you take Cell's statements seriously. I don't think it's a viable option. His confidence is better described with his obsession with his "perfect form".

Spoiler: click to toggle


Spoiler: click to toggle


Was Gohan holding back? Most likely. Suppressing? I really doubt it.

Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


illstand1
Nov 29 2011, 04:24 AM
It comes down to if you take Cell's statements seriously. I don't think it's a viable option. His confidence is better described with his obsession with his "perfect form".

Spoiler: click to toggle


Spoiler: click to toggle


Was Gohan holding back? Most likely. Suppressing? I really doubt it.
Nice. Though, to counter, the Z-Warriors thought Cell may have had a chance as well at Full Power, then at Buff Power, unless they were just being overly concerned, but placing stake in that would be opinion as well.
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Nov 29 2011, 04:37 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


bizness86
Nov 29 2011, 04:29 AM
illstand1
Nov 29 2011, 04:24 AM
It comes down to if you take Cell's statements seriously. I don't think it's a viable option. His confidence is better described with his obsession with his "perfect form".

Spoiler: click to toggle


Spoiler: click to toggle


Was Gohan holding back? Most likely. Suppressing? I really doubt it.
Nice. Thought, to counter, the Z-Warriors thought Cell may have had a chance as well at Full Power, then at Buff Power, unless they were just being overly concerned, but placing stake in that would be opinion as well.
Their surprise at gohan consistently beating cell is easily explained by Piccolo:

Spoiler: click to toggle


Spoiler: click to toggle
(and the camera man)


They weren't surprised at the power itself, they were surprised who the power was coming from.
Edited by Mihawk, Nov 29 2011, 04:49 AM.

Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Cocoman
Member Avatar
Badabing!

bizness86
Nov 29 2011, 04:21 AM
Cocoman
Nov 29 2011, 04:12 AM
They couldn't even suppress SSjin until they mastered it.
How do people come to the conclusion that SSjin2 and SSjin3 could be suppressed?
So, I take it you're not for suppression in SSJ2...

Well, I didn't say SSJ3 could be suppressed.

I don't think it's outlandish to think that SSJ2 is partly suppressible, especially since Goku and Gohan put in the work to control SSJ, unless it's another 10* to 50* boost. If I raise my stats to handle a *50 increase, then a stacked *2 shouldn't be nearly as bad to handle.

That, and the fact that Cell thought he'd be able to catch Gohan's power with Full Power, Power Weighting, etc...
The idea of going through a transformation without achieving full power in a previous form is far-fetched. It simply doesn't make sense.

But yeah lil basically explained it how I was going to explain it. Cell was probably more cocky than Saiyan arc Vegeta and that's saying a lot. He had so much confidence and belief in himself that he was delusional basically.
Posted Image
Tony Soprano
 
I'm the mother *****in *****in one who calls the shots.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


but I didn't say they were surprised at Gohan's power. I stated that they were concerned when ever Cell powered up, as if he were actually catching up to Gohan's power. Such as Cell going full power, Krillin stating that Cell's ki is incredible, and yet no one stating that it's not a match for Gohan. Also, Future Trunks stating that Buff Cell has power, but not speed.

Those statements are pretty much moot if Gohan's showing that much power to begin with, and the manga is being dragged out for no reason.

Full Power
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mihawk
Member Avatar


bizness86
Nov 29 2011, 04:59 AM
but I didn't say they were surprised at Gohan's power. I stated that they were concerned when ever Cell powered up, as if he were actually catching up to Gohan's power. Such as Cell going full power, Krillin stating that Cell's ki is incredible, and yet no one stating that it's not a match for Gohan. Also, Future Trunks stating that Buff Cell has power, but not speed.

Those statements are pretty much moot if Gohan's showing that much power to begin with, and the manga is being dragged out for no reason.

Full Power
I don't think they were concerned at all. Krillin was amazed at the ki which is natural but he doesn't bother compare it to gohans. Goku was actually happy that Cell went full power. So here you have Krillin saying a vague statement and Goku saying for sure that Gohan is still over.

Posted Image

Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kruegs Outlandish
Default Avatar


Cocoman
Nov 29 2011, 04:59 AM
The idea of going through a transformation without achieving full power in a previous form is far-fetched.
Not sure what this means.

I was stating that he wasn't using all of the SSJ2 power until the end. I don't know what you mean by previous form. But to each, their own. That's why the title of the topic is Your ThoughtZ.

It's a topic for debate.

I guess this topic may be related. From there, you can find my opinion; SSJ didn't change, Goku and Gohan just became strong enough to control it; since that's the case (IMO), a *2 boost should be controlled somewhat even if it can't even be lowered below SSJ state.

@ ill
[shrugs] then you'd say that gohan wasn't able to control his power to that extend. gg
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Nov 29 2011, 05:10 AM.
Member Offline View Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball/Z Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1

Theme Designed by McKee91