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| Goku's Lies; Fight with Vegeta, Super Sayian 3 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 26 2011, 01:45 PM (1,373 Views) | |
| PrinceVegeta2011 | Nov 26 2011, 01:45 PM Post #1 |
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I can't understand the reasoning behind Goku lying to the Z Fighters about his fight with Majin Vegeta in the Buu Saga, he tells them that he was fighting at his maximum when he clearly wasn't, I see why he didn't show it to Vegeta to save his pride but I see no reason to hide his true power from the others. |
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| Illustrious | Nov 26 2011, 02:12 PM Post #2 |
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Because he hadn't mastered it yet, he wouldn't have lasted long in it. His time on Earth would have dramatically decreased; as we witnessed by his showing off the form to both Goten and Trunks. |
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Nov 26 2011, 02:24 PM Post #3 |
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nice explanation illustrious, goku didnt HAVE to lie, but he found it necessary as HE ddint want to be the one to have to save the day, hence the true reason he took a back seat and decided training the boys for fusion was best. He wanted to pass on the mantle....and then got everyone killed for his other mistake, sending gohan out to do his job. Obviously gohan was stronger, but if goku had his power at the time? he would have mopped the floor with not just super buu but buutenks as well IMHO. Probably the other reason they made goku so strong in movie 13, he had caught up to gohan in strength, and by gt had passed him up completely. |
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Nov 26 2011, 03:06 PM Post #4 |
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he did fought at his ssj2 maximum,but yea,at ssj3 he could probably take Vegeta down fast |
| Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol | |
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Nov 28 2011, 01:47 AM Post #5 |
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There is no max power for a form, just how much power you can muster, goku being a midlevel ssj3 automatically makes his ssj2 stronger than vegetas, goku said he was going all out but really wasnt, since he hit the natural plateau between ssj2 and ssj3 he already has the strength to keep going, he would have out fought and out lasted vegeta if it continued on any longer. Vegeta was at his ABSOLUTE max, goku lowered himself no matter how you slice it. |
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Nov 28 2011, 01:55 AM Post #6 |
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If Vegeta's base was lets say 10 and Goku's 10 as well SSJ = 50 multiplier SSJ2 = 100(lets say) SSJ3 = 150(lets say) so,at ssj 2 they were both equal,but Goku had the advantage to go ssj3 and multiply his power even further |
| Reality is an illusion caused by the lack of alcohol | |
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Nov 28 2011, 02:35 AM Post #7 |
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I'm probably wrong, but don't we have to include the multiplier that Vegeta received when he became Majin? If Vegeta had already reached SSJ2 before he became Majin (I think he did), then wouldn't that give him another boost, making him about equal to Goku in SSJ2 form? |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 28 2011, 02:46 AM Post #8 |
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No matter how you slice it, you're going against every statement and indication given. You're saying Goku really was stronger than Vegeta just because. |
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| NavonWise | Nov 28 2011, 05:03 AM Post #9 |
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Save Vegeta's pride? |
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Nov 28 2011, 05:44 AM Post #10 |
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you would accuse me of something you just did? really? goku said he was going all out but was clearly on another level altogether, to believe he DIDNT have an advantage over vegeta as well as having a deeper power well is just wishful thinking, thanks to gokus spiritual training with king kai he was given a permanent advantage over vegeta in power and stamina. Deny this....My proof is gokus own words and the aftermath of vegeta learning the truth about goku NOT being at his absolute max and having vegeta be his equal. cmon now...and since goku hit and rose above the plateau between not only ssj2 and 3 but into midlevel ssj3 as well, so how could he NOT have an admitted power advantage over vegeta in a form that doesnt require but a FRACTION of his true power? you cant try and split hairs between forms and their power outputs and not admit that gokus ssj2 is inherently stronger than vegetas through training and diligence and was stronger than kid gohan at the time of the fight. For goku using this form was nothing, for vegeta it took everything he had....and goku wouldnt win?? to deny goku as a true master of the form when vegeta is only powered by rage is a misnomer in the highest degree. not to mention by your own admittance, vegetas ssj2 form got as strong as gokus ssj3 by the time they hit gt, how is it only possible for him to do it when goku did it first? just saying, the only time vegeta ever had an advantage was before the rosat after gokus recovery. Gokus 100x kaioken could have put him up to an ssj2 level in the underworld fight against pikkon, who with his own kaioken type of technique took out SPC with a kick and a chop to the neck. Something even goku couldnt do at the time, and this may all be filler but that line was crossed before i jumped in. Its safe to say that goku discovered ssj2 some years before his resurrection, having mastered it he crossed the plateau into ssj3 and continued to rise. Vegetas ssj2 was weaker than teen gohans until he got the majin seal for a rage boost. Rage doesnt help against goku, dont all his dead enemies tell you that? Edited by Paikuan extreme, Nov 28 2011, 06:02 AM.
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Nov 28 2011, 07:09 AM Post #11 |
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Goku never had any plan on using SSJ3 from the get go. The form is not meant for the lower world, and he didn't even thinking about using it until he had too. Majin Vegeta = Goku in all forms, except SSJ3 of course. |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 28 2011, 09:18 AM Post #12 |
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What exactly am I supposed to be denying? I'm not entirely sure here.
I'm not denying that SSjin 3 Goku is stronger than SSjin 2 Vegeta, but you're saying SSjin 2 Goku is stronger because he has SSjin 3. It doesn't work like that. Goku's max in SSjin 2 was equal to Vegeta's. He can't delve into his SSjin 3 power in a lower form. Nobody has ever done that in the entire series IIRC.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here either. What does Goku always being strong have to do with them being equal in SSjin 2?
Vegeta was at least as strong as Kid Gohan before he got Majinized, but I suppose that's truly down to opinion. I still don't know what you're truly trying to say here. Just because Goku has another form on Vegeta doesn't mean Vegeta can't be equal to Goku in the same form, especially when it's stated four times. Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3 Context: as Goku and Vegeta fight Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…” Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P10.2-3 Context: after Boo seems to be dead on arrival Kaioshin: “Goku and Vegeta are probably having a roughly even fight…” Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P13.4 Context: after Goku becomes a Super Saiyan 2 Trunks: “Th-that old guy…He has about as much power as papa…” Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.3-4 Goku: “…I’ll be frank. It’s no use. I can’t defeat [Majin Boo]. [ ] …There was practically no gap between Vegeta’s true strength and mine…And Majin Boo is still fine despite Vegeta sacrificing himself, right? Sorry, but I couldn’t win, no matter what.” SSjin 2 Goku (max) = SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta (max) by all accounts. There is no "SSjin 2 Goku (max) > SSjin 2 Goku (against Vegeta) = SSjin 2 Majin Vegeta (max)". Having another form doesn't imply that at all. If Goku is digging into his SSjin 3 power, he's going SSjin 3. Zarbon didn't dig into the power of his transformed state, Freeza didn't dig into the power of Form 3 when he was in Form 2, and Gotenks didn't dig into the power of SSjin 3 when he was in SSjin -- all of whom had great reason to do such a thing in their battles. They were at their max in their respective forms. Going further would be transforming. |
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Nov 28 2011, 01:39 PM Post #13 |
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im sorry, since when DOESNT goku fight fair???? he made it quite clear that he was going all out to appease vegetas lust to fight, and clearly lowered himself. You guys are sticking to the whole form and maxed out power thing, goku lowered his natural power output to match vegeta, he put the retrainer on himself, in no part of dbz is it implied that ones power is ONLY connected through their various forms, just the power output they can accomplish while IN them. Goku gave vegeta his props because he did train hard in underworld, given the power boost vegetas skill was on par and goku was impressed, not scared. If anything thats gokus fault as he auto assumed vegeta would be a pushover. we are both reading the same facts just interpret them different. The power itself is what makes goku switch forms so he can handle the power better, if he was a better grade ssj2 like broly he wouldnt need to change to ssj3 to handle vegeta, but since his power potential was thought maxed out in that form, he gave it what he had, all im saying is that his power runs deeper and hotter than vegetas who without the majin seal would have issues with teen gohan whom he was mad at for letting that power go to waste, not because he saw him as an equal. No way he could have. To pretend there is NO connection when the users power is all the same makes no sense. To say gokus ssj2 wasnt stronger than vegetas because he has a seperate form makes no sense either. Not to me anyways. Im not saying goku didnt go all out in his ssj2 form, im saying he idnt put much effort into giving it all he had, like i said, in a real fight with no interuptions? goku could wait vegeta out if he wanted to. eventually vegeta would get tired and maybe run the majin boost out...or die from the strain. Gokus body is stronger naturally, it could handle more power naturally, and he wasnt fully maxed out as far as power goes while in ssj2. Vegeta was. Vegeta was using ALL the power he could muster to keep up with a goku he had to FORCE to take him seriously with a good punch. Goku wasnt impressed until then. |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 28 2011, 05:44 PM Post #14 |
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I understand what you're saying now and I don't have a problem with it, but I still don't see SSjin 2 Goku having anymore power than SSjin 2 Vegeta other than one more transformation. I will, however, disagree with Vegeta having any trouble with Teen Gohan. He clearly felt superior to Gohan even before he knew how much power he'd lost. |
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Nov 28 2011, 08:15 PM Post #15 |
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SSJ2 Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku Then,when Vegeta saw Goku's SSJ3 he realised Goku was more powerful SSJ3 Goku > any Vegeta form is this really that hard to understand ? |
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you would accuse me of something you just did? really? goku said he was going all out but was clearly on another level altogether, to believe he DIDNT have an advantage over vegeta as well as having a deeper power well is just wishful thinking, thanks to gokus spiritual training with king kai he was given a permanent advantage over vegeta in power and stamina. Deny this....

4:54 PM Jul 13