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Majin SSJ4 Pan vs Hirudegarn
Topic Started: Nov 26 2011, 07:20 AM (1,573 Views)
brolyeuphyfusion
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The Legendary Nightmare

Babidi has taken Pan under his control and sent her to fight Hirudegarn!! Who wins?
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+ Pyrus
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Pan with just SSjin would take care of Hirudegarn IMO. Giving her Majin and all four forms of SSjin is just mean.
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+ supersaqer
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Transcendent

Hirudegarn stomps, he stomped Ultimate Gohan easily and Ultimate Gohan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pan.
__
Hirudegarn stomps.


Edited by supersaqer, Nov 26 2011, 07:57 AM.
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Kblo247
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 26 2011, 07:38 AM
Pan with just SSjin would take care of Hirudegarn IMO. Giving her Majin and all four forms of SSjin is just mean.
Mean and downright humbling for Goten and Trunks. Pan would be a god Iim GT with SSJ or SSJ2, 3 or 4 equals Goku sitting down and taking a nap.
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I actually think that Pan is more powerful than SSjin Goten and Trunks at the end of Z. It's implied she's at least near Innocent Boo in power (surpassed it IMO), while Goten and Trunks couldn't touch Boo, who was at least as powerful as SSjin 2 Vegeta/Goku 10 years prior.

I take back what I said earlier though. I took a look at my levels and Pan would need SSjin 2 to clobber Hirudegarn, at least with my multipliers.

Ultimate Gohan: 21,700,000,000,000
Hirudegarn: 30,000,000,000,000+

Pan (EoZ): 1,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin: 10,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 2: 40,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 3 (hypothetical): 160,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 4 (hypothetical): 1,600,000,000,000,000+

And yes, before anybody jumps on me for having Pan surpass Gohan with just SSjin 2, I have her 80% weaker than Base Goku, who I do have slightly surpassing his Boo arc SSjin 3 power by the end of Z. To put it into perspective:

Innocent Boo: 550,000,000,000

Pure Boo: 1,600,000,000,000

Evil Boo: 15,500,000,000,000

Goku: 1,800,000,000,000
~ SSjin: 4,500,000,000,000
~ SSjin 2: 9,000,000,000,000
~ SSjin 3: 36,000,000,000,000

Yeah, I have SSjin 3 Goku surpassing Gohan by the end of Z. It's just the way my numbers add up, and nothing really contradicts it in the manga. GT and Movie 13 certainly support it, so yeah.

Anyway, rambling aside, EoZ Pan needs SSjin 2 in order to win. But my point about Majin and SSjin 4 being overkill remains.
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 26 2011, 08:11 AM.
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brolyeuphyfusion
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The Legendary Nightmare

@Kamikaze Pyro: Pan doesn't even have that much potential lol, and Base Goku EOZ>SSJ3 Goku is way too much. It seems you have a 10x SSJ multiplier. I have a 50x SSJ multipler which never changes. I just don't have base saiyans that strong, not even broly. The only way Pan can be in the trillions is that if the less saiyan the stronger you are, which makes no sense. Movie 13 happens years before EOZ, because trunks and goten are still kids, Goku also used a very very very powerful move to win. GT Goku's power makes no sense, no training on earth can put his base above his own SSJ3 (x400 base), so GT supporting something is rather meaningless.

These are my powerlevels:
EOZ Pan = 35,000,000
GT Pan = 100,000,000
SSJ4 GT Pan = 400,000,000,000
Hirudegarn 1st Form = 1,400,000,000,000
Hirudegarn 2nd Form = 2,800,000,000,000

I was wondering if Majin could close the gap.
Edited by brolyeuphyfusion, Nov 26 2011, 08:37 AM.
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Pan doesn't even have that much potential lol

That'd be for you to prove. The manga supports my side. Gohan had more potential than Goku, and Goten arguably had more (wasted) potential than Gohan. It's only fitting that Pan had more potential than Goten.
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Base Goku EOZ>SSJ3 Goku is way too much.

It's suggested and nothing blatantly contradicts it so I don't have a problem with it.
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The only way Pan can be in the trillions is that if the less saiyan the stronger you are, which makes no sense.

Trillions is just a result of numbers. She could be in the low hundred thousands for some people. As long as she's around Innocent Boo's level or higher, it's all good.
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Movie 13 happens years before EOZ, because trunks and goten are still kids, Goku also used a very very very powerful move to win.

You're right, but he tanked a direct punch from Hirudegarn. You could always just say having his tail cut off weakened him, and that's fine if you want to think that, but in Toei's world, Goku is stronger than Gohan regardless.
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GT Goku's power makes no sense, no training on earth can put his base above his own SSJ3 (x400 base), so GT supporting something is rather meaningless.

If you say so. I was just adding that bit in, not using it as absolute fact.
Quote:
 
These are my powerlevels:
EOZ Pan = 35,000,000
GT Pan = 100,000,000
SSJ4 GT Pan = 400,000,000,000
Hirudegarn 1st Form = 1,400,000,000,000
Hirudegarn 2nd Form = 2,800,000,000,000

You have Pan weaker than Freeza when she's almost practically stated to be above Goten and Trunks. Your SSjin 4 multiplier is also way too small.
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I was wondering if Majin could close the gap.

It depends on who you ask. The Majin power-up releases the person's latent power. Different people will have different opinions on how much latent power Pan had. I obviously think she had more latent power than Gohan did at any point in the series.
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Kblo247
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The fact is that Goku is stated to be as strong as his ssj3 self in base in GT. It is a stated fact that can't be contradicted.

The fact is that even before Vegeta went ssj4 it is stated as a fact that the only person on earth who was strong enough to even correctly fathom and measure Gokus ssj4 power was Vegeta because he was stronger than all the rest including Gohan and Majuub by a margin with his ssj2 level (remember he had his potential limits unlocked thanks to the Majin charm ) after not only training harder than the rest but finally smarter when it came to resting and replenishing his body.

The fact is that Gohan is stated to have kept his ultimate form and trained for years to refind his ability to go SSJ 1 and 2 so he can become even stronger.

The fact is Uub had full access to the power of Kid Buu and went off while Goku and the others left, so that he could train and get even stronger. Buu joining him gave him his full powers and abilities back which allowed him to theoretically be the equivalent of what Super Buu was at the least and perhaps more since he had progressed past Kid Buu.

Piccolo is stated by Trunks to be stronger than he and Goten in GT. He goes to hell and calls the place with an improved Frieza and Cell, as well as the likes of King Cold and the movie villains like Cooler and Bojack target practice.

Pan is stated to be stronger than base Trunks by Trunks himself. Baby states that Goten was the weakest saiyan power he ever felt when fighting him in his base and he had something to compare it to since Pan blasted him before when they thought they had killed him. When the other ssjs power Goku up, Kibito Kai says she isn't a SSJ but she has the heart of one and her power she gives could definetly help Goku , so it wasn't just for show. She also blew away a sigma force agent which was said to be be only behind Rildo who was stronger than Buu and forced Goku to use SSJ. She also slapped around a shadow dragon, one dragon used her power to be able to fight Goku, and she basically killed another. Gero couldn't even budge her despite still being clearly his android self, and he was touching her with his nodes that drain energy similar to Vegeta and 19 yet just like Vegeta she shrugged it off and had a decided advantage

Trunks was stated as stronger than Goten by Baby. His SSJ state put him ahead of Pan, much like that of Goten, but he went from wanting to take her back because she couldnt go ssj and protect herself, to being in favor of keeping her around after he saw her actual power surpassed his in his base.

Goten was the weakest of the bunch in his base and slacked the most. He also was said to be the weakest SSJ as well by Baby. That said he had progressed from his Z self in the anime and movies, which just goes to show how much all the others above had progressed over him.

You might not like GT, but those are stated facts and the power structure of the program. Nothing you come up its number wise or feel can change that as it is set in stone and has been for years.

Conclusion - Goten and Trunks were much stronger than their movie and Z self in GT. Pan was stronger than both of them and she had to be significantly stronger than Goten for Baby to scoff at his displays despite his progress. Giving her Majin or SSJ4, let alone both is overkill because Trunks was able to hurt the beast in his base form in the movie as a kid, and Pan is worlds above that Trunks since she is above fully grown and powered up to hell Trunks in GT.
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 26 2011, 09:10 AM.
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