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- Super Perfect Cell vs SSJ2 Vegeta
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| Super Perfect Cell vs SSJ2 Vegeta | |||||||||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 22 2011, 11:05 AM (7,249 Views) | |||||||||
| + Pyrus | Dec 28 2011, 04:08 PM Post #76 | ||||||||
 
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Gohan still got injured badly enough to doubt himself by a blast from Cell, and he wasn't off-guard. | ||||||||
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Dec 28 2011, 04:46 PM Post #77 | ||||||||
 
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yeah,that is kind of weird though but I don't think Toriyama thought about it much.I think he just did that so Gohan can do that awesome one hand kamehameha,and to make things more dramatic Edited by DarkCore, Dec 28 2011, 04:46 PM.
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| * Tyro | Dec 28 2011, 04:50 PM Post #78 | ||||||||
 
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However strong Cell is post-zenkai is up in the air to me. It's too ambiguous for me to firmly say that he's equal to or much weaker than SSj2 Gohan. But SSj2 Vegeta (pre-Majin), we actually have a rough estimate about his strength and it comes out to being: SSj2 Goku = SSj2 Majin Vegeta > SSj2 Kid Gohan > SSj2 Goku (momentary burst vs. Yakon) > SSj2 Vegeta > SSj2 Teen Gohan So Vegeta is quite week compared to a lot of other people on the SSj2 level. I have no idea how Cell fits into the picture though. Edited by Tyro, Dec 28 2011, 04:50 PM.
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| LSSJ5 Broly | Dec 28 2011, 05:04 PM Post #79 | ||||||||
 
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I would have SSJ2 Vegeta on par or at least a very little difference and Vegeta is not that stupid to fall for the same thing a second time he is a very elite warrior bred for battle. I don't really wanna pick a side here this is starting to become a argument or it is already an argument. |
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| + Pyrus | Dec 28 2011, 05:50 PM Post #80 | ||||||||
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That would require Gohan losing more strength than is indicated IMO. And Vegeta being below the power Goku showed against Yakon doesn't fit either, since he was confident in fighting an improved Goku at the tournament, and stated he expected Goku to be above Kid Gohan during their battle, which would imply he figured this out during the Yakon battle and that's why he went to Babidi. |
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| * Tyro | Dec 28 2011, 06:40 PM Post #81 | ||||||||
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I don't recall Vegeta ever saying that he expected Goku to be stronger than SSj2 Kid Gohan. Can you provide a reference of some sort? But check out these quotes:
From this we can gather that Vegeta realized that Goku was stronger than himself after using his SSj2 burst against Yakon. And it was only after Goku fully transformed into his SSj2 state that Vegeta mentions that he was stronger than Gohan was back during the Cell Game.
Therefore it's logical to conclude that: SSj2 Goku > SSj2 Kid Gohan > SSj2 Goku (burst) > SSj2 Vegeta |
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Dec 28 2011, 06:47 PM Post #82 | ||||||||
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yeah i give this to SPC if it wasnt proven also that SPC and gohans power was pretty much even, gohan was losing heart and was faltering, thats how his emo power works. SPC and Premajin vegeta i have roughly = to each other but lower than gohan, whos well of power still isnt fully tapped, even when he was half dead. Considering what SPC can do i would have to give to him, since vegeta and spc are not only about equal, but it wasnt until goku came back is when he was ready to fight anyone above the level SPC was on, cause technically? Only gohan actually BEAT SPC in hand to hand combat. no one else could. Technically you could say him and goku were even, but with some power added on Cell would have stomped him. SPC was in gohans range of power most def. Its just that gohans training and rage boost> spc in raw power. which is what happened in the end. A power fight. I dont see vegeta>SPC in raw power premajin. He can beat dabura a fp perfect cell, but not Super perfect cell who was at the bottom of ssj2's, when vegeta got the boost and goku actually caught up from training. YEs i have vegeta premajin lower than kid gohan at full power. The majin boost was bigger than most people want to accept. In the end neither goku or vegeta were even THAT much stronger than kid gohan. I still say he could fight either one really. |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Dec 28 2011, 07:58 PM Post #83 | ||||||||
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I guess that + Vegeta dead set on and confident about beating Gohan at Budokai even before Goku affirmed his reappearance = contradiction. Also, I suppose just to add, Vegeta stated such after Gohan's piss-poor attempt at Dabra (evidently Gohan was expected to have, at the very least, improved), so he could have simply meant that Goku wasn't going to be as much of a disappointment as someone who doesn't improve his power or skill in an entire 7-year period. Gohan vs Dabra equates to Gohan still struggling with Cell even after 7 years. While Goku and Vegeta have gone past that. imo
* - even with twice as much, still outclassed. |
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| + Pyrus | Dec 28 2011, 09:00 PM Post #84 | ||||||||
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It's in the quote you've given yourself. Goku: "I don't wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo's energy... So I'm going to end this quickly, at maximum power." Vegeta: "I'm looking forward to this...Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I'd expect. Your power is greater than Gohan's was back then!" Once he felt Goku's power in the Yakon fight, he knew Goku was hiding much more, or the "just as I'd expect" line wouldn't make much sense, and that's what prompted him to yield to Babidi. His suspicions were confirmed when they finally fought, so he doesn't need to be below Goku's burst in order for this to work. We know Vegeta's already on Cell Games Goku's level at least, evidenced by his confidence and willingness to fight Goku. For Goku to still be below Kid Gohan, and Vegeta even further below that by such a huge margin that he'd sell his soul, would indicate a gigantic gap between Gohan and Goku at the Cell Games, or the way my theory plays out. |
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| * Tyro | Dec 28 2011, 09:22 PM Post #85 | ||||||||
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Vegeta also stated that "At that time there was a large gap between our powers…But what about now? While you've been enjoying peace, I've continued to train." He was confident that he could most likely beat the post-time skip Gohan, but this doesn't mean anything concerning the pre-time skip Gohan. @Kamikaze Pyro: I think you make a good point, but I don't believe that it's set in stone concerning the "Just as I'd expect" line and what it may be referring to. It's possible that it may be Vegeta having expected Goku to yield more power than what he displayed, like you've pointed out, or perhaps it means more of a general sense. As in "It doesn't surprise me that..." or "It's obvious that you wouldn't have slacked off." Like a compliment. |
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Dec 28 2011, 11:13 PM Post #86 | ||||||||
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Dude Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku is a stated fact. That is all. | ||||||||
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Dec 29 2011, 10:03 AM Post #87 | ||||||||
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I'm confident in saying that all of that was under the impression that Gohan was at least as strong as he was 7 years prior. Vegeta hadn't, or had barely, seen Gohan since he was a boy. That statement could easily have been a "I trained 500g while you slept and played, and nothing you could have done over 7 years matches my drive" statement. To Vegeta: Young Gohan < Teen Gohan That and Vegeta would have trained to exceed Gohan's Cell Games power; it's the last and biggest power he's felt. He'd probably assume that Goku surpassed it as well (per quotes you 2 have posted). Why would Vegeta even show up after Goku announced that he would if he weren't at least as strong as Gohan was. That would be disgraceful to show up in front of Kakarot who is most likely much stronger than Gohan was still weaker than his son. Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Dec 30 2011, 01:33 AM.
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Dec 30 2011, 01:03 AM Post #88 | ||||||||
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its a fan stated fact. No one knows vegetas true level of power by numbers, he was just well within pl range to take goku out. You dont need to fake like its so precise because some KNOWN fan written book says so. Imo it wouls seem that vegeta had a pl to already aspire to in order to beat goku, and as far as vegeta was concerned? it was a race. It took him 7 years to get to where he could take on and beat SPC in hand to hand combat, in no WAY does that mean he = kid gohan, who himself at the end and half dead, opened up his tank and overwhelmed cell so quick he couldnt even fight it. Vegeta had seen earlier gokus burst with yakon, it was then vegeta realized gokus power was deeper than his. Gokus power runs deepr its a vegeta admitted fact. So dont bother arguing. At THAt point he had to admit that babidis madoshi charm was formidable magic as it turned to ordinary punk humans into super powered beasts that could possibly> raditz for breakfast. YOU TOO would think that would give you a pretty good amplifier. Vegeta knew he would need it if goku had even more power than that. He understands how goku uses his powers. He's copied a few techniques. So kid gohan>premajin vegeta>teen gohan>dabura ssj2 goku>Kid gohan fully enraged >kid gohan fp=premajin vegeta >=Spc Edited by Paikuan extreme, Dec 30 2011, 01:05 AM.
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Dec 30 2011, 07:56 AM Post #89 | ||||||||
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But the fight was a equal? Besides even knowing Vegeta's arrogance we know he couldn't have holding back due to him being shocked at hearing Goku held back a form. Unless both held back power than you have to wonder why Vegeta was so surprised at Goku holding form back. |
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Dec 31 2011, 09:53 PM Post #90 | ||||||||
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not really, because vegeta was so dead set on being stronger than gohan as just like goku they both wanted to leap over the next wall. IMO? vegeta saw it as a race and also wanted to know if his hand to hand had improved any either. Which it had, gokus biggest compliment to him really. Dont get me wrong, vegeta is well withing range of killing goku with the madoshi charm, but his boost from it was bigger than realized. He was disappointed in gohan and was emabrrassed when goku returned that he coulodnt motivate gohan to train hard. So he went by himself and broke TWO x500 gravity machines. Gohan could have REALLY benefitted from that. Instead the access to his hidden power had waxed and waned and vegeta had passed him up. The gap between kid gohan and teen gohan is too big. Im even gonna assume his mssj is probably down to goku cell games level as well. One of the reason why his power up against dabura didnt mean much. Didnt put much fear into anyone did it? Kid gohan would have had dabura needing a diaper at full power. |
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