Legalization of marijuana

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Legalization of marijuana
Tweet Topic Started: Nov 19 2011, 03:43 AM (2,460 Views)
Fulgore	Nov 21 2011, 12:14 PM Post #31
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	I can 100% assure you there is no physical addiction characteristic in marijuana. I could smoke a few grams and not be on the road to smoking a few grams each day for the rest of my life. No, quite the contrary. Cigarettes are so terrible because of the physical dependency you establish from the nicotine. And as for people who establish mental dependencies on marijuana? They're going to be addicted to something, whether it's weed or caffeine(Or mmos...or sex..).. it's just who they are Edited by Fulgore, Nov 21 2011, 12:16 PM.
	Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion


Optimus Banana	Nov 21 2011, 09:44 PM Post #32
Posts: 837 Group: Member Member #5,898 Joined: March 25, 2011 Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Google Favourite Manga Dragonball Z	Tim Nov 21 2011, 10:35 AM The only problem I have with the idea of free choice is education. A lot of people dont know better. Thats why there is such a prevalence of smoking. As i've said before I think smoking should be illegal - especially due to the damaging effect it has on people around them. Likewise wish cannabinoids a lot of people just dont know what they're getting into. And sometimes things like this should be regulated in order to protect people from them. Can you imagine the chaos if prescription medication didn't exist and people could buy whatever they wanted? It would be horrible. I guess my main point is that while it could be looked as a freedom, which don't get me wrong i'm all for, it could also be viewed at as another example of how cigarettes started off - the majority of people didn't know better and got hooked into it and now it's a major morbidity and mortality factor around the world and the companies have so much money they slow down any restrictions as much as they possible can. Do you see where i'm coming from solely from a heath basis? Wrong, cigerette use is the result of stupidity, not lack of education. Now every thing bad about cigerettes you learn in school by like the 5th or 6th grade. Anyone who would still go and smoke a cigerette is pretty much an idiot. That or they hang around idiots and get drunk at a party then they smoke it and get hooked. Like Fulgore said weed doesn't have a physical addiction like cigerettes or heroin. You won't see a weed smoker vomiting or being paronoid after a mere 12-24 hours without the substance. As Fulgore said you can feel a craving for anything such a sweets, sex, or even adrenaline rushes.
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Tim	Nov 22 2011, 07:34 AM Post #33
Forum Royalty Posts: 7,535 Group: Prince Member #4,562 Joined: November 1, 2009 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Hunter x Hunter	About 37 Llamas Nov 21 2011, 09:44 PM Tim Nov 21 2011, 10:35 AM The only problem I have with the idea of free choice is education. A lot of people dont know better. Thats why there is such a prevalence of smoking. As i've said before I think smoking should be illegal - especially due to the damaging effect it has on people around them. Likewise wish cannabinoids a lot of people just dont know what they're getting into. And sometimes things like this should be regulated in order to protect people from them. Can you imagine the chaos if prescription medication didn't exist and people could buy whatever they wanted? It would be horrible. I guess my main point is that while it could be looked as a freedom, which don't get me wrong i'm all for, it could also be viewed at as another example of how cigarettes started off - the majority of people didn't know better and got hooked into it and now it's a major morbidity and mortality factor around the world and the companies have so much money they slow down any restrictions as much as they possible can. Do you see where i'm coming from solely from a heath basis? Wrong, cigerette use is the result of stupidity, not lack of education. Now every thing bad about cigerettes you learn in school by like the 5th or 6th grade. Anyone who would still go and smoke a cigerette is pretty much an idiot. That or they hang around idiots and get drunk at a party then they smoke it and get hooked. Like Fulgore said weed doesn't have a physical addiction like cigerettes or heroin. You won't see a weed smoker vomiting or being paronoid after a mere 12-24 hours without the substance. As Fulgore said you can feel a craving for anything such a sweets, sex, or even adrenaline rushes. You're missing my point. The people who started smoking cigarettes before they knew better are the ones who are actually feeding the corporations who produce it and the people who start smoking these days are usually the ones who end up hooked on it. I'm saying however that cannabinoids DO have a physical addiction like cigarettes or heroin. Take this paper for example if you can view it and just to quote from the abstract to summarize it: R. Maldonado, F. Berrendero, A. Ozaita, P. Robledo, Neurochemical basis of cannabis addiction, Neuroscience, Volume 181, 5 May 2011, Pages 1-17, ISSN 0306-4522, 10.1016/j.neuroscience.2011.02.035. (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306452211002053) Keywords: THC; reward; tolerance; CB1 receptor; dopamine; opioid Quote: The psychoactive compounds contained in cannabis induce their pharmacological effects by the activation of at least two different receptors, CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors. Multiple studies have demonstrated the specific involvement of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in the addictive properties of cannabinoids. Several neurotransmitter systems involved in the addictive effects of other prototypical drugs of abuse, such as the dopaminergic and the opioid system are also involved in cannabis addiction. The participation of other neurochemical systems in behavioural responses of cannabinoids related to their addictive effects has also been reported. Futhermore weed smokers can end up vomiting from having the drug - it is one of the subjective acute effects, as i posted earlier in the topic. Nausea is also a common symptom of withdrawal, although as I stated most of the withdrawal symptoms are mild. We however aren't talking about withdrawal but addiction here. The difference to things such as sweets, sex, milk etc it that those aren't controlled by a substance effecting your bodys chemical functions. if you want me to go further into negative effects of cannabis how about this: Quote: Marijuana use has been associated with low academic achievement, legal problems, unemployment and risk for the development of psychotic disorders (Ferdinand et al., 2005; Friedman et al., 2001; Hall and Degenhardt, 2009; Henquet et al., 2005). These negative effects of cannabis are of particular relevance in young consumers considering the early age of starting consumption in developed countries. Early cannabis consumption is often associated with an elevated risk of later problematical use of cannabis and other drugs, poor academic performance, mental health problems and enhanced criminal behaviour (Copeland and Swift, 2009; Lynskey et al., 2003; Hall, 2006). Quote: It is estimated that one out of 12 cannabis users will eventually become dependent on marijuana (Wagner and Anthony, 2002). As with other addictions, cannabis-dependent individuals are characterized by the compulsive seekR. Maldonado et al. / Neuroscience 181 (2011) 1–17 3ing, loss of control and reinstatement to use marijuana despite signiﬁcant problems associated with its consumption. Thus, approximately 90% of those seeking treatment for cannabis-related substance disorders report difﬁculty achieving and maintaining abstinence (Budney and Hughes, 2006). These are just two quotes from one article out of many relating to this. There are many more out there - and if they don't cite the appropriate research studies then they have the research done themselves. Give that article a read - it should be easy enough to see that i'm not just making this up and that cannabis is indeed an addictive substance. If you wish to argue this point with me please provide me with some factual evidence to prove it. ~Tim



Fulgore	Nov 22 2011, 09:09 AM Post #34
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	Your statistics apply to everything. Some people might be Shirt chewers. I could say 1 in 25 people are compulsive shirt chewers. It could be a true statement, but it's not because the shirt is addictive. It's the person's personality. Marijuana use has been associated with low academic achievement, legal problems, unemployment and risk for the development of psychotic disorders <-- All have been linked to anything from TV to Sex. It's almost impossible to blame anything more than short-term memory loss on this *****, in my honest opinion. I've been a stoner going on 5 years now. The only thing I can tell you thats 'negative' about it is I can't tell you what happened honestly all those times I was high. Nothing was lost because I am RESPONSIBLE and I maintain when and where I get high. Marijuana, LIKE MOTORCYCLES requires you to be intelligent and responsible. It's that simple Tim, it comes to down how intelligent and responsible you are.
	Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion


Tim	Nov 22 2011, 09:16 AM Post #35
Forum Royalty Posts: 7,535 Group: Prince Member #4,562 Joined: November 1, 2009 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Hunter x Hunter	If you look in the article it has the data and how it was calculated. It's not just a number based on some BS statistics. The point is that the addiction isn't just linked to what people view as 'statistics' but also on how the drug actually interacts with the body. So you think that just letting everyone has access to it and have a bunch of people wondering around with no idea what they're doing and have no memory of it at a later stage is a good idea? I'm not saying anything against you personally but is the average person necessarily going to be as 'responsible' as you? You can't just something like this solely on your own personal experiences especially when it is going to have such long reaching and long term consequences. ~T



Optimus Banana	Nov 22 2011, 12:26 PM Post #36
Posts: 837 Group: Member Member #5,898 Joined: March 25, 2011 Favourite Anime Dragonball Z What Browser do you use? Google Favourite Manga Dragonball Z	The thing is, most people aren't simply going to jump on it when it's legalized. Most people who smoke while it's illegal are the only ones gonna do it. Once it's legal it's not like 50 million people are gonna start doing it. In I believe 2009 or 2010, 20 million people openly smoked cannabis regularly. That's not counting people in jail for possession or people who wouldn't say. Edited by Optimus Banana, Nov 22 2011, 12:27 PM.
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Mihawk	Nov 22 2011, 07:15 PM Post #37
Posts: 4,804 Group: Prodigy Member #4,783 Joined: March 2, 2010 Gender Not Specified	Tim I see you're for the ideology that you have to wear a seat belt or pay a fine. A lot of people aren't and it's not really possible to argue with an opinion So that aside, don't you think decriminalization in replacement with help clinics would be a good idea? http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal Portugal seems to be doing good in that aspect. Most people addicted to powerful drugs fear embarrassment or retribution of turning themselves in. So do you think it'd be a good thing if it was decriminalized and the money used for the war on drugs would be used to help addicted people for free instead?



Fulgore	Nov 22 2011, 07:23 PM Post #38
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	Portugal, like I've said has single handily proved that prohibition is not the answer. Also Tim. You need to stop focusing on the medical aspect of marijuana. Start focusing on everything ELSE that legalization brings. Edited by Fulgore, Nov 22 2011, 07:26 PM.
	Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion


Tim	Nov 23 2011, 09:57 AM Post #39
Forum Royalty Posts: 7,535 Group: Prince Member #4,562 Joined: November 1, 2009 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Hunter x Hunter	illstand1 Nov 22 2011, 07:15 PM Tim I see you're for the ideology that you have to wear a seat belt or pay a fine. A lot of people aren't and it's not really possible to argue with an opinion So that aside, don't you think decriminalization in replacement with help clinics would be a good idea? http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/Portugal Portugal seems to be doing good in that aspect. Most people addicted to powerful drugs fear embarrassment or retribution of turning themselves in. So do you think it'd be a good thing if it was decriminalized and the money used for the war on drugs would be used to help addicted people for free instead? I am actually I know someone who was killed because they weren't wearing a seatbelt =\ There is a reason such restrictions are done - and it isn't because they like having power and controlling people. I do think that would probably be a good idea - and would come under medicinal use. I have no problem with restricted / controlled usage as it's less likely to be abused that way. It's the recreational use that I disagree with. So yes, I have no issues with that respect @Fulgore, apologies then, I didn't mean to seem entirely that way - however as that is my speciality and field of expertise it is the main reason I am against the legalization for recreational use. I've agreed already it would help the economy and such, but I still feel the heath deficits make it not worth it. ~Tim



~~Paikuan extreme~~	Nov 23 2011, 07:05 PM Post #40
Posts: 5,568 Group: Suspended Member #5,921 Joined: March 29, 2011 Favourite Anime dbz What Browser do you use? ie9 Favourite Manga akira	wolffanghameha Nov 19 2011, 04:58 AM About 37 Llamas Nov 19 2011, 04:23 AM Yeah most bad things about marijuana are lies and twisted facts throw out by the government to cover up there failed attemp at a war on drugs. An example would be saying a joint of weed has more tar than a cigerette. While this is true, marijuana users only smoke about 5-6 joints a week while cigerette users smoke several a day. Also at the lazy part^^^ That's a lie. Not all marijuana smokers are lazy, a lot of smart/athletic people actually use it regularly. Micheal Phelps done it and he won a gold medal. Our founding fathers grew it and most likely smoked it. If you give a lazy d-bag weed he will still be a lazy d-bag. People wont get nausea (which pot relieves) and vomiting from not smoking it like cigerettes will. Eh I'm hardly 1 to believe things about it straight off the bat. Like I know it doesn't cause cancer, but it is still bad for your health just like smoking anything. Not all cannabis smokers are lazy but it does make most people lazy I think. I also heavily doubt that Phelps is actually a weed smoker. More likely he just did it once or twice as a novelty going by his reaction, and well you can't really be an olympic athlete and smoke any drugs regularly. You need to be able to breathe, and for swimming it's no exception....you can actually swim faster with your head in the water. As for the founding fathers....prove that 1 as much as you can please. You need to read a history book, both washington and franklin were KNOWN for smoking hemp. Like ol boy said, twisted facts and lies, dont fall for the reefer madness, its garbage. The only real bad side effect in reality is a possible connection to chronic bronchitis. Thats it. Not all people can handle taking drugs, or the same drugs, marijuana isnt liked as a high by ALL people who get high. But it is more natural like opium or paoti, you dont have to do much to get it to work. drugs that need to processed are the real drugs, you can put anything you want in them, designer prescription drugs? kill people all the time, and yet all they do is give a warning? why illegalize a plant? makes no sense. its effects arent permanent and non habit forming, but then again you can get addicted to drinking gatorade and it would be dangerous for you as you overfill your body with chemicals it doesnt need. All in moderation people, assuming what others would do is a reflection on you. Stick to the facts please.



Fulgore	Nov 24 2011, 02:12 AM Post #41
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	Also, I know plenty of people who smoke and are tri-sport athletes who double major. So don't assume that smoking makes it so you can't compete. That's BS. Most smokers have no stamina because they don't exercise, let's be real here
	Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion


Tim	Nov 24 2011, 10:18 AM Post #42
Forum Royalty Posts: 7,535 Group: Prince Member #4,562 Joined: November 1, 2009 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Hunter x Hunter	I've said everything I need to say. Clearly no one is actually listening or reading any of my posts of my references so i'm not going to bother repeating myself endlessly as i'm just going to end up smashing my head against a wall. I stand by what I've said. @ninjajp - There are more side effects and it is habit-forming, unlike gatorade (which i believe is just electrolytes which would be naturally filtered and excreted by the kidney if you drink a lot of it) it is addictive in a physical manner, again please refer to my earlier posts. Yes it's more natural than opium and such - those drugs are also illegal in many countries and with good reason. Going the other way do not assume 'processed' drugs as you call them are so bad. What 'processed' drug do you know which is available for recreational use and free for anyone to use which kills people on a regular basis? Without such drugs there would be so many more medical problems in the world. Take penicillin as an example - if it wasn't for that people would be dying from microbial disease and suffering a lot more. It was the first antibiotic ever invented. I believe the statistic is that 75% of people alive today wouldn't be if it wasn't for that drug due to their parents or grandparents dying from a disease it fought. What about insulin? We artificially produce human insulin for diabetics to use. What about the small pox vacine? The polio vaccine? What about ether, the first anesthetic? I'd like to see surgery occur without anesthetic. What about morphine? One of the best analgesics we know, despite it's addictive properties it helped in so many ways and lead to the creation of much better drugs. Aspirin or paracetemol? Your general painkillers, think how it would be without them? Oral contraceptives? Birth control? Cardiovascular drugs like digoxin? What about ACE inhibitors such as captropril? There are so many drugs which are used repeatedly worldwide to help improve peoples heath and keep them working and functioning. Before you say 'processed' drugs think about what they do worldwide and how much they effect people - you yourself probably use them on a regular basis if you have a headache or something. Furthermore with the way in which drug testing is done these days it is highly unlikely a drug will cause any severe problems to people taking it - a few cases which have cropped out before these tests were removed from the shelves immediately. These days you can design a drug to target one particular area of the body, one particular receptor designed to do a single thing. Before you attempt to judge that imagine how things would be otherwise. People who hate on drugs like this bug me at times - especially when you talk about sticking to the facts. Also as I said, gatorade wouldn't be dangerous if it's just water and electrodes - i would highly doubt there would be any drugs in gatorade. ~Tim



Fulgore	Nov 24 2011, 10:26 AM Post #43
The Darkness Returns Posts: 3,163 Group: Member Member #5,205 Joined: September 2, 2010	Thing is tim, imho. If people are going to kill themselves doing stupid *****.. Might as well turn a profit and make it legal.
	Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion


Tim	Nov 24 2011, 10:41 AM Post #44
Forum Royalty Posts: 7,535 Group: Prince Member #4,562 Joined: November 1, 2009 Gender Male Country New Zealand Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Hunter x Hunter	Well my personal opinion if you bring it down to that is to try and stop them doing the stupid ** and getting killed in the first place I'd prefer to be broke and see people happy than rich and see people suffer around me. I guess that's just a difference of opinion ^^ Edited by Tim**, Nov 24 2011, 10:42 AM.



~~Paikuan extreme~~	Nov 24 2011, 02:58 PM Post #45
Posts: 5,568 Group: Suspended Member #5,921 Joined: March 29, 2011 Favourite Anime dbz What Browser do you use? ie9 Favourite Manga akira	There is no need to be bugged tim, designer drugs have a lot more complications than believed by MOST, clinical trials take up to ten years to be released and are usually pulled back within five years, WHy is that? side effects to great, may cause cancer most of them, destroy your body IF this isnt the correct diagnosis that. a+b=c and when you put it together? its usually only a few chemical compounds the person reacts to that can make all the difference, how on earth did bruce lee NOT know he was allergic to analgesic? what was his alternative? instead for his troubles he died by misadventure. im sick and tired of all the pencil pushers trying to convince people taking that stuff is right, starting with famous model nikki taylor, back in the 90's her baby sister killed herself by using an otc asthma inhaler for anxiety. I see commercials EVERYDAY that mar the profession itself by admitting that the risks outweight the benefits of most drugs taken just to ease back pain, or relieve constipation. Cmon tim, I have no bias in my opinion just the need to cut across the red tape people put up as a smoke screen, Half the drugs you names are derivitives of the poppy plant, morphine and opium are the same thing, same difference as meth, crank and crystal. For a very good reason for natural barbituates to be outlawed takes a politicalally charged climate that begs to adhere to the ones in charge, when the rules are made? only the small majority gets a vote, america is still run puritan style and the morals havent changed, just the people that care, its too much. Drugs werent outlawed cause they were mind altering substances, they were outlawed as a side effect of a demand for everyone to be the same...under lock and key. Otherwise than that i agree with you about the value of other things discovered by mister pasteur and marie curie...respectively, but multiple man made chemicals will never treat your body the same as something natural, sorry tim, but i would rather eat or smoke actual marijuana than swallow a thc pill. BTW??? gatorade can overfill you with electrolytes and overdose you, making you violently ill for at least a day or so. drinking to much water killed a radio contestant in california 3 years back, all in moderation sir, moderation. designer drugs are abused by those who wish to and used by those who dont, doesnt change the fact they are dangerous and are declared dangerous. Ask someone at risk for dying of a heart attack or complete failure when they get high LEGALLY everyday, alcohol and barbituates make people do strange things. Who was he latest fame victim to fall into that trap over there again? point is tim, i didnt respond to your post in particular, just the guy i responded to when i opened the topic, not to mention the one small fact that penicillin is derived from a certain green mold. totally natural.



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