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Why Vegeta is trumped by Goku
Topic Started: Nov 18 2011, 07:25 PM (7,204 Views)
Noir
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Goku has a higher ceiling than Vegeta..thats all it is
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* Yu Narukami
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Izanagi!

It's because Goku takes care of his body. Vegeta just trains constantly and doesn't give his body a chance to properly rest, thus he doesn't reap the full benefits of his training.
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DarkCore
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yeah,Goku having more natural talent is a nice excuse sure...EXCEPT the fact ofc that Vegeta beaten Goku on EQUAL power levels by tricking him and proving goku's naivety,and while he fought Goku they were equal,though Vegeta IMO had a little bit of an upper hand(rewatch the fight again and see what I mean)

Only thing that RoSaT proves is that producer always gives an advantage to main characters,look at Gohan, he jumped from nobody to strongest Z warrior in cell saga,first reaching ssj then FPSSJ then SSJ2 in such a short time compared to others.That just doesn't make sense,and makes DBZ seem even more unrealistic.

If somebody who trains whole the time and has royal warrior blood in himself,along with fighting spirit and heart of the champion is that strong,that would be normal,logical and realistic.

Its just idiotic to see somebody who trains so hard made weaker than somebody who doesn't give a ***** about fighting,like Vegeta and Gohan thing,but then again it has its advantages.For example,people respect Vegeta much more because of that,never giving up.BTW :

Vegeta - son dies by a guy who tricked him in battle -> they only made him go angry
Gohan - random android who wanted to kill his father dies -> goes ssj2

yeah...


If Dragon Ball was for real,Vegeta would have surpassed other characters by far,of course alot of other things would change too,but thats not the subject of this thread.
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DarkCore
Dec 3 2011, 09:11 PM
yeah,Goku having more natural talent is a nice excuse sure...EXCEPT the fact ofc that Vegeta beaten Goku on EQUAL power levels by tricking him and proving goku's naivety,and while he fought Goku they were equal,though Vegeta IMO had a little bit of an upper hand(rewatch the fight again and see what I mean)

Only thing that RoSaT proves is that producer always gives an advantage to main characters,look at Gohan, he jumped from nobody to strongest Z warrior in cell saga,first reaching ssj then FPSSJ then SSJ2 in such a short time compared to others.That just doesn't make sense,and makes DBZ seem even more unrealistic.

If somebody who trains whole the time and has royal warrior blood in himself,along with fighting spirit and heart of the champion is that strong,that would be normal,logical and realistic.

Its just idiotic to see somebody who trains so hard made weaker than somebody who doesn't give a ***** about fighting,like Vegeta and Gohan thing,but then again it has its advantages.For example,people respect Vegeta much more because of that,never giving up.BTW :

Vegeta - son dies by a guy who tricked him in battle -> they only made him go angry
Gohan - random android who wanted to kill his father dies -> goes ssj2

yeah...


If Dragon Ball was for real,Vegeta would have surpassed other characters by far,of course alot of other things would change too,but thats not the subject of this thread.
The entire point of that saga was to make Gohan's hidden power become a huge plot point.

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For example,people respect Vegeta much more because of that,never giving up

I might have respected him more if he wasn't a huge dick. Or he didn't...kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
I only respect Vegeta in the Kid Buu saga when he starts acting like a true hero and a real warrior.

Edit: Cell never tricked Vegeta. Cell flatout told Vegeta multiple times that if he absorbs Android 18 he will beat Vegeta up. Vegeta was just being stupid and didn't listen.
Edited by Clearin, Dec 3 2011, 09:22 PM.
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DarkCore
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I agree though that Vegeta was a dick in previous sagas,but later not only that he didn't kill people,he actually defended them(vs Hirudegarn for example).

In Namek saga he was a dick in a good way and he still fought tactically

In Android saga he was overcome by his SSJ multiplier,which seemed to multiply his ego even more,so he made some stupid mistakes

In Buu saga he was at his best IMO

Edited by DarkCore, Dec 3 2011, 09:29 PM.
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DarkCore
Dec 3 2011, 09:27 PM
I agree though that Vegeta was a dick in previous sagas,but later not only that he didn't kill people,he actually defended them(vs Hirudegarn for example).
I mostly meant before the series even started. It's hard to feel sympathy for a guy who lived his entire life killing entire planets worth of people and had a smirk on his face while he did it. Even up to the Android saga he would kill someone without batting an eye (The truck driver). And then in the Buu saga he seems to have no respect for people but at least doesn't hurt them... until he turns Majin...
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Victorious
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Quote:
 
yeah,Goku having more natural talent is a nice excuse sure...EXCEPT the fact ofc that Vegeta beaten Goku on EQUAL power levels by tricking him and proving goku's naivety,and while he fought Goku they were equal,though Vegeta IMO had a little bit of an upper hand(rewatch the fight again and see what I mean)


I was talking about Goku has a natural ability to raise his power at faster rates

Sure SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta were dead equal....but Vegeta need the Majin boost, and STILL had Goku used his true power (SSJ3) Vegeta would be a broken heap in one shot. Goku is worlds above Vegeta


And as good as Goku is, Gohan has even more natural ability to gain power at faster rates.

Gohan >>> Goku >> Vegeta
Edited by Victorious, Dec 3 2011, 09:45 PM.
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DarkCore
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well,he was a warrior who was teached from his youth to kill,he didn't really have much choice,but later he does change alot,he protected people from Hirudegarn and wished back all people he killed ;)

if Goku didn't hit his head,he wouldn't do much better himself,they are saiyans its just the way they are born and raised :errm:

But tell me

when did Goku do something badass ? Never really

what are Goku's famous phrases ? well,I didn't really heard any,but Vegeta has hundreds of them

when did Goku make a great speach ? OK,he did make great speaches vs Frieza and before fusing into Vegito,but Vegeta makes a good speach almost every time he fights

Vegeta is just much more interesting to watch,I can almost predict all Goku's actions,you can see the inner conflicts in Vegeta,the way he fights demons from past,he is much more complicated and was tortured by Frieza's tyranny for his whole youth,even though Goku's life hasn't been a walk in the park either,compared to Vegeta,Goku got everything so easily

In most other shows,about 60% love main character the most,but in DBZ Vegeta and Goku are about equal,though mostly Goku leads by about 5%,but I even saw places where people like Vegeta more.

Edited by DarkCore, Dec 3 2011, 09:53 PM.
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Noir
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Dont get all upset because Goku clearly had the higher ceiling
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DarkCore
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yea,Goku is higher I'd give him that ;)
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DarkCore
Dec 3 2011, 09:52 PM
when did Goku do something badass ? Never really
He broke a log with his fists and they all fell on top of each other in a neat pile
He threw a car
He got shot in the head and survived
He jumped 100 feet into the air with a motorcycle
He killed a dinosaur with a stick
He crushed rocks by basically hugging them
He carried a sea turtle 120KM on his back
He beat a giant bear with a sword with only 1 punch
He took an axe to the head
He wasn't scared by a giant monster, bull, robot etc
He outran a rocket on a cloud
He held his own agaisnt a desert bandit with a sword... while he was hungry
The next day he beat up that desert bandit easily
He wasn't scared of a giant madman with an axe
He managed to make a kamehameha a few seconds after seeing one
He effortlessly beat up two guys who had been terrorizing a town for a long time
He beat up their boss
He took them all to the moon..THE MOON
He beat up two cops
He managed to endure Roshi's training
He effortlessly beat all his opponents in the prelims at the 21st budokai
He beat a monster...thing
He jumped into the clouds, fell down and survived
Goku vs Jackie Chun...yeah nuff said
He beat up a bunch of henchmen then one of the Red Ribbon army's top men
He took out an ENTIRE base ran by the worlds most dangerous organization by himself
He beat a giant octopus and then ate it
He beat General Blue, another of red ribbons top men
He saved a mouse from a cave-in
He took a jet engine flame to his whole body at point blank and lived
He climbs up a huge tower which is...very high
He effortlessly beats Tao, the worlds greatest assassin
He then procedes to storm and take out THE WORLDS STRONGEST ORGANIZATION WHICH NOT EVEN THE MILITARY COULD STOP. He did this with nothing but a cloud and a stick. Oh and he fought a giant robot too.
He effortlessly beat 2 of Baba's men
He beat his own grandad who was said to be a master at martial arts
3 years later he arrives wearing tiger skin, implying he killed a tiger, skinned it and wore it's fur
He swam across the entire world
He beat Chapa, one of the worlds strongest men, in 1 hit without trying
The same goes for Panput
He beats Krillin without using his full power, another expert at martial arts
His entire fight with Tien gets a mention. But especially the ending, he jumps into the clouds, falls probably 1000+ feet, gets hit by a truck and lives
When his best friend dies he gets super pissed off and goes after his killer on an empty stomach
Later beats that same killer easily
Drinks some sacred water which no one else has ever been able to drink and live, he lives.
Beats Drum, a person who Tien had trouble with, in one kick
His entire fight with King Piccolo, he basically beat the ruler of the world, and he did it with only one of his arms in the end
Trains with GOD
Beats all his prelim rounds easily again, including Chappa again
Beats Chichi and Tien pretty easily
His entire fight with Piccolo, including winning while having all his bones broke, a hole in his chest and still manages to jump 500+ feet in the air
Goes after a guy multiple times stronger than himself to save his son
Sacrifices himself to save his son/the Earth
Runs across snake way
Saves his son from dying again, just in the nick of time
Makes Nappa look like a fool
Manages to go up to Kaioken x4, when 2 is supposed to be very dangerous
Lets Vegeta live so he can have a challenge again in the future
Trains in 100x gravity, almost killing himself multiple times in the process
Easily defeats Recoome and Burter
While in Ginyu's body manages to find his way to the battlefield with a huge hole in his chest
Makes Ginyu turn into a frog, saving Vegeta in the process
Takes on Freeza, the ruler of the universe
Manages to get up to Kaioken x20
Turns Super Saiyan when his best friend dies and proceeds to make the ruler of the universe look like a clown, making many awesome taunts in the process
Blocks a sword with his finger
Punches Dr Gero in the face in response to Gero destroying half a city
Fights a killer Android even while he has a heart condition right up until it gets too much for him to handle
As soon as he recovers the first thing on his mind is saving the world
Saves Tien and Piccolo from Cell
Trains in the RoSaT, making Gohan into the strongest warrior in the process
His fight with Cell, all badass. But special mention to Instant Transmission Kamehameha
Sacrificing his life for the Earth...again
Helps Gohan beat Cell with motivation
Becomes the strongest warrior in the otherworld
Treats Babidi's minions like a joke/game, even Dabura
Beats Yakkon with his energy alone
Threatens to kill God if he gets in the way of his fight with Vegeta
His fight with Majin Vegeta, yeah
Super Saiyan 3 transformation. That is all.
Manages to swing the Z sword in base
Picks up and throws the worlds heaviest metal
Saves everyone (left alive) from Buu...in his Base Form. He saved everyone from Buutenks in his base form.
Vegetto in general (If that counts)
His fight with Kid Buu
Saves the universe again from Kid Buu

That's just going by canon btw, not including any filler. And it's only going off the top of my head so I probably missed a lot.
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DarkCore
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you mistook heroic for badass <_<
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DarkCore
Dec 3 2011, 10:39 PM
you mistook heroic for badass <_<
Many of that stuff wasn't even heroic. Besides being heroic is badass to me. I think Goku is a bigger badass than Vegeta <_< But Vegeta does have better lines, I'll give him that much.
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DarkCore
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lol Goku bigger badass than Vegeta ? yeah,right,and Piccolo is a red clown
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Victorious
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Goku just showing up and making fodder of the Ginyu force (who had just pummbled Vegeta) is more "bad *****" than anything Vegeta ever did.
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