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| Fat Buu (All Out) & SSJ/SSJ2 Gohan (Post Z-Sword) vs SSJ3 Goku (Living, All Out) | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 12 2011, 07:33 PM (4,197 Views) | |
| lunar2 | Nov 14 2011, 06:49 PM Post #31 |
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gohan doesn't need rage to transform. he transformed at the budokai on a whim. goku was merely referring to the rage boosts, because he knew, just like vegeta, that gohan is nigh unstoppable when angry. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Nov 14 2011, 06:52 PM Post #32 |
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Goku told him to get angry before his fight with Fat Buu.....Gohan later said he coundnt...and he was clearly stuck in SSJ against Fat Buu. Goku didn't seem to be factoring in any sort of rage when assessing Gohan's power with the Zeta sword and how he might stack up to Fat Buu. Edited by Victorious, Nov 14 2011, 06:53 PM.
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| Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list | |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 14 2011, 06:55 PM Post #33 |
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I think it's useful to note that when Goku tells Gohan to get angry, he doesn't refer back to the tournament where Gohan was just a Super Saiyan 2. He refers back to the Cell Games, where Gohan was a raging beast. Gohan can turn Super Saiyan 2 rather fine, he just needs rage to access all of his power in the form. Vegeta holding Boo off in Base is hardly what I'd call "holding off". He took a few attacks was on the ground and couldn't even move. He wasn't able to get back up and had to be carried away by Mark. |
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| + Clearin | Nov 14 2011, 06:56 PM Post #34 |
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I agree the lack of sparks and aura look like that, but that's about the only thing I agree with.
No point asking me that because I think he did go SSj2 agaisnt both of them, in fact that would be exactly my question, why wouldn't he? |
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Nov 14 2011, 06:59 PM Post #35 |
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Well you would be wrong. |
| Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list | |
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| lunar2 | Nov 14 2011, 07:01 PM Post #36 |
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but gohan wasn't necessarily mssj against buu. again, the traits are mixed, as they have been ever since the budokai. and why would goku be referring to rage in relation to ssj2, when he saw gohan transform at will at the budokai? and why would he state that no one could possibly beat an enraged gohan? and then he emphasized the "no one". Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6 Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone… He's referring to gohan's true power, not to ssj2. if he's talking about transformation, he's hinting at ssj3. again, why would he think gohan needs rage to reach ssj2, when he just saw gohan reach ssj2 with no trouble? |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Nov 14 2011, 07:02 PM Post #37 |
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You can find quotes for both sides of the argument, art supports both sides (Hair supports SSj2, aura supports MSSj) and the situation in general only supports SSj2, hell even the Daiz says he was AND wasn't a SSj2. It's pretty much a matter of opinion. |
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| lunar2 | Nov 14 2011, 07:05 PM Post #38 |
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we could just as easily say you are wrong. the art is mixed, the guidebooks are contradictory, both forms could make sense in context. there is simply no solid evidence either way. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Nov 14 2011, 07:07 PM Post #39 |
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I'm not saying Gohan cannot have various powers at SSJ2 factoring rage. That's another topic in itself. I'm saying A. Gohan needs some degree or rage to go SSJ2 in the first place. (ala Android 16's head getting crushed or Videl getting beaten to a pulp) B. He was plainly shown to be an SSJ against Dabura and Fat Buu...there's no if, ands, or buts about it. SSJ2s have electric currents in their aura..it's like saying Goku can be in SSJ without golden hair. Gohan was plainly drawn to be an SSJ. Saying he was SSJ2 is just flat out making things up. If you want to make things up I can make things up too....Vegetto was SSJ2, as was Goku against Cell, and Android 19. And Vegeta was SSj3 against Pui Pui. You see, it's easy to make things up. Edited by Victorious, Nov 14 2011, 07:08 PM.
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| Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list | |
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| Kblo247 | Nov 14 2011, 07:07 PM Post #40 |
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I think he was a ssj. He went ssj2 at the tourney but had some motivation to piss him off with Videl and the fact that he would get Spo in the next round. He really wasn't angry vs Dabura which was shocking and he didn't have any reason to hate Buu completely just like with Cell at first so he didn't go all the way. In fact he never goes ssj2 again in Z i believe with the complete aura and lightning sadly, while Vegeta (Majin) and Goku clearly did.
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 14 2011, 07:08 PM.
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| lunar2 | Nov 14 2011, 07:11 PM Post #41 |
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actually, no. ssj2 does not always have lightning in the aura. vegeta, after he knocked goku out, had no lightning until he ate a sensu, but he was still drawn as ssj2. injured gohan vs. super perfect cell had no lightning when he punched him, or during the beam struggle, but he was ssj2. goku using an ssj2 burst against yakon had no lightning. lightning is NOT a trait of ssj2, it's a trait of power. nappa had lightning without any transformations when he powered up. super perfect cell had lightning, but he doesn't transform except from absorbing androids. vegito had lightning as an mssj. lightning is not a determining factor either way. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Nov 14 2011, 07:12 PM Post #42 |
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MSSj has a short fat bang, he was clearly shown with a long thin one like a SSj2. In the Fat Buu fight it's especially noticeable. Kaioshin: “Goku and Vegeta are probably having a roughly even fight…I’ll pin Babidi down. After that, if you can manage to defeat Dabra, then Babidi’s scheme will be completely wiped out! So then! Now’s the time to get angry, like Goku said! Get angry and show me your true power! Gohan, peace is almost at hand!” Kaioshin tells Gohan to use his true power Chapter: 461 (DBZ 267), P3.5-7 Context: after Kaioshin says they must run from Boo Gohan: “…Is that so?...He really does have tremendous ki, but…It doesn’t seem like so much so that there’s nothing I can do…[ ] …If I can only put out my true ability…” Gohan says he's using his true ability agaisnt Fat Buu, that suggests SSj2 even though he has no sparks (His bang however is long and thin) Kibito: “Huh…!? You can’t mean…Does this have anything to do with Son Gohan…?” Kaioshin: “That’s right…His power is far beyond our imagination. If we took it and changed it into something even more unreal, he might be able to surpass Majin Boo…” Kibito: “Wh-what!? That can’t be…” Kaioshin: “You didn’t see how amazing those 3 Saiyans were, so you probably couldn’t imagine…” Kaioshin says Gohan's power is far beyond their imagination as if Kibito didn't know this, yet Kibito has seen and sensed SSj2 Gohan before, why would Kaioshin try to play up Gohan's MSSj as if it was special? And most of all, why WOULDN'T Gohan turn SSj2? Dabura/Fat Buu were both trying to kill him. Edited by Clearin, Nov 14 2011, 07:12 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Nov 14 2011, 07:14 PM Post #43 |
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Gohan was relieved and happy once Videl was healed. He even smiled. He was the same way in Babidi's ship, so if someone is saying he had lingering anger from Videl's beatdown, they can't say he didn't have some from Krillin and Piccolo's stoning. In fact, Gohan had more motivation to fight Dabra at full power, since he didn't need to save Videl, but he did need to save Krillin and Piccolo by killing Dabra.
Gohan had lightning prior to the beam struggle, and Cell lost his lightning in the beam struggle as well. Vegeta had lightning as he knocked Goku out, but then didn't once Goku was down. His aura also changes during that exchange, and then changes back once he's fully powered up from the senzu. It could be said he reverted to SSjin from exhaustion after downing Goku, and then transformed back to SSjin 2 once his power was recovered. Edited by Pyrus, Nov 14 2011, 07:20 PM.
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Nov 14 2011, 07:17 PM Post #44 |
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He didn't have lighting for 1 panel..that's probably just the lightling actually "flashing" you know....Majin Vegeta had lightning, lol
When did injured Gohan ever punch SPC????
Again it was for a brief second..a second...his aura didn't even have time to get lighting. And he was stated to be pasted SSJ2 . Thats different lightning...Nappa's was yellow...SSJ2 is blue-white and looks much different.
SPC just had a pseudo SSJ2..just like he showed he had pseudo USSJ 2 by going buff..he's part Saiyan. No problem there.
He had lighning for 1 second..and how do you know he was SSJ and not SSJ2? Edited by Victorious, Nov 14 2011, 07:19 PM.
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| Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list | |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 14 2011, 07:22 PM Post #45 |
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Because why would he go all the way to SSjin 2? He was easily near Gohan-Boo in Base already. It's also stated two or three times that he was a normal SSjin in the guidebooks. His aura also doesn't match a SSjin 2's. |
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