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Teen Goku (23rd Budokai, W/O Weights) Vs. Adult Goku (Raditz's fight, W/ Weights).
Topic Started: Nov 11 2011, 10:14 AM (944 Views)
+ supersaqer
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Transcendent

Who would win? I think there is no difference between them, so 23rd Budokai Goku wins due to him not having the weights.
Have Goku trained to get more power or he stayed on the same level?
Correct me.
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SSJ Ranulf
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I'm thinking 23rd Goku wins. Sure, Goku likely improved, but I don't think he really made massive gains over the 5 years. He had a family, and no reason to train: he'd beaten Piccolo, the strongest person in the world.

By removing his weights, Goku went from Tien tier straight past Kami tier and into one of only him and Piccolo: a huge increase. I think that's bigger than what he got over 5 years of lazy training.
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Cocoman
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It's likely that Goku powered up a lot in the 3 year gap.

At the 23rd Budokai they still relied on physical strength quite a lot so Goku could probably only be at 150-200 or even less than that.
So yeah I think beginning of Z Goku wins even if he is weighted.
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SSJ Ranulf
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Is there evidence one way or the other, or is this just opinion? I don't recall and statements implying that Goku & co had been training very hard. Still, it's believable that they did power up quite a bit, I suppose.
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Cocoman
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Badabing!

Considering Piccolo had been training, I find it hard to believe that Goku was still in front of him without training substantially.

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SSJ Ranulf
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I think Piccolo devoted much of his time developing the SBC, which would have lowered his power increases. I think Goku/Piccolo weighted would be Kami+ tier, but not quite at there previous unweighted level.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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I don't think Makkankosappo took 3-5 years to develop. Maybe a year at most.
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SSJ Ranulf
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Well I'm not sure. It was implied Kami > Tien, and I don't think weighed Goku should get much more of an increase than he did. I'd have Tien (start of Z) close to Kami, bit under him, and weighted Goku (start of Z) right above Kami. That's still a pretty big increase: Tien thought Kami was impossible strong, so I'd say weighted Goku made quite an increase from being on Tien's level to being > Kami.
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TrunksinSwimmingTrunks
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I'm pretty sure he trained during the gap because

1. Goku is known for training and wanting to get stronger
2. Although the world is at peace, Goku knows that Piccolo could strike at any time, so would probably train to stay ahead of him.
3. Piccolo clearly trained(he developed the makankosappo during the time skip), yet Goku is still slightly stronger than him.

So DBZ Goku is most likely stronger than 23rd Budokai Goku, and he has the experience from the 23rd Budokai which will maybe give him a slight advantage if they're actually fighting each other.

I see 23rd Goku as between 216(if 22nd Tenshinhan/Goku were 150) and 259(if 22nd Tenshinhan/Goku were 180 like in the Daizenshuu). Going by the official Daizenshuu battle powers Goku got a 1.44x increase from the 22nd Budokai to King Piccolo, so I gave him that, and then another 1.44x for the 23rd Budokai since he underwent special training again. Don't see what else I can do. These battle power values are all without weights btw.

DBZ Goku with weights is 330, so he beats 23rd Budokai Goku no matter what.


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SSJ Ranulf
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I'm not saying that Goku didn't train, and I think he got a very large increase, but I don't think he blew his old power out of the water.

At the tournament, Goku was on par with (possible a little above) Tien while weighted. Then, Tien was stunned at how powerful Kami was: it seemed totally impossible for anyone to be that powerful. And then an injured Piccolo who just battled with Goku said that he could defeat Tien, Krillin, Yamcha, and Kami (all of whom he's seen fight) with no difficulty.

In Z, I'm fairly sure Kami implies that the Z-fighters didn't surpass him until after his training (which lasted, I believe, about half of the time before the Saiyans arrived). So Tien in Z should be < Kami. And I don't see any evidence that Goku would have trained much harder than Tien, so I don't feel comfortable putting him faaaaa~~aar above Kami, like he'd need to be in order to be on his unweighted level previously. I also don't think Kami trained; doesn't seem like something god would do, imo.

In numbers, I personal feel it's something like this:

Tien (23rd): 10
Kami: 30 (I feel that even at 15 he'd astound Tien, but to be so strong as to be impossible makes me think he'd be massively above him).
Goku (23rd, weighted): 11
Goku (23rd, unweighted): 45
Tien (Z): 25
Goku (Z, weighted): 30
Goku (Z, ueighted): 55

Of course, one could point to the early Z numbers (which I find garbage), and use them as strong evidence to invalidate my theory. I do however think that Goku's weights gave him a much larger increase in Dragon Ball than in Z, because I figure he got so much stronger that the weight really didn't matter very much to him anymore.
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