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SSJ2 (Cell Games) Goku vs Super Perfect Cell
Topic Started: Nov 7 2011, 05:12 AM (6,052 Views)
Mihawk
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woops meant love :p

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Kruegs Outlandish
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lunar2
Nov 7 2011, 05:40 AM
Cell is definitely weakened from the exertion of the beam battle, but Imo not enough to bring him down to goku's level. goku loses handily.
just noticed this going back into a few topics.

what made your opinion drift from the one expressed in this topic.
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lunar2
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bizness86
Nov 10 2011, 05:49 AM
lunar2
Nov 7 2011, 05:40 AM
Cell is definitely weakened from the exertion of the beam battle, but Imo not enough to bring him down to goku's level. goku loses handily.
just noticed this going back into a few topics.

what made your opinion drift from the one expressed in this topic.
a change in my interpretation of the frieza fight lead to a smaller initial ssj multiplier. this ssj multiplier was small enough that there was no need to shrink the multiplier for mssj, as long as i used minimal ssj2 and 3 multipliers. changing the multipliers changes everything from then on.

for example, at the cell games:

old numbers:

mssj goku 100
mssj gohan 130
fp perfect cell 300
super perfect cell 390
ssj2 goku (hypothetical) 400
ssj2 gohan 520

new numbers:
mssj goku 100
mssj gohan 130
Fp perfect cell 166
ssj2 goku 200
super perfect cell 249
ssj2 gohan 260

cell is still noticeably weaker than gohan, but close enough that he can possibly take him by skill. wounded gohan is, of course, quite a bit weaker than cell.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Kruegs Outlandish
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lunar2
Nov 10 2011, 06:14 AM
bizness86
Nov 10 2011, 05:49 AM
lunar2
Nov 7 2011, 05:40 AM
Cell is definitely weakened from the exertion of the beam battle, but Imo not enough to bring him down to goku's level. goku loses handily.
just noticed this going back into a few topics.

what made your opinion drift from the one expressed in this topic.
a change in my interpretation of the frieza fight lead to a smaller initial ssj multiplier. this ssj multiplier was small enough that there was no need to shrink the multiplier for mssj, as long as i used minimal ssj2 and 3 multipliers. changing the multipliers changes everything from then on.

for example, at the cell games:

old numbers:

mssj goku 100
mssj gohan 130
fp perfect cell 300
super perfect cell 390
ssj2 goku (hypothetical) 400
ssj2 gohan 520

new numbers:
mssj goku 100
mssj gohan 130
Fp perfect cell 166
ssj2 goku 200
super perfect cell 249
ssj2 gohan 260

cell is still noticeably weaker than gohan, but close enough that he can possibly take him by skill. wounded gohan is, of course, quite a bit weaker than cell.
makes sense. appreciate the reply. still using the 20% stomp factor by chance?
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lunar2
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30%, but i'm thinking about going back and reworking that. if what i'm thinking about pans out, it might be 16.7% (1/6).

the 30% rule just comes from vegeta stomping kiwi, anyway. i think what might be more relevant is vegeta stomping dodoria.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Kruegs Outlandish
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lunar2
Nov 10 2011, 02:44 PM
30%, but i'm thinking about going back and reworking that. if what i'm thinking about pans out, it might be 16.7% (1/6).

the 30% rule just comes from vegeta stomping kiwi, anyway. i think what might be more relevant is vegeta stomping dodoria.
well, actually, you're closer to my mindset than I thought.

b has a power advantage over c if(1 - b / c > 15%)
a stomps c if(1 - a / c > 32.25%), or a has an advantage of b who has an advantage over c

Yeah D7 has Dodoria/Zarbon: 22 000/23 000 that's a 10%/5% difference. I'm guessing there was something psychological involved with Dodoria, Zarbon didn't get beat too badly before transforming. I'm thinking other stats were involved.
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Victorious
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basically if MSSJ Goku at the Cell games were to have SSJ2 would he beat 'Super' Perfect Cell. The answer is definitely no.

Gohan was quite a bit stronger than Goku at the Cell games and SPC was just about dead even with SSj2 kid Gohan.

SSJ2 kid Gohan >= Super Perfect Cell > hypothetical SSJ2 Goku at Cell games. Cell wins rather easily, so does Gohan.
Victorious' fan made Dragon Ball Z Battle Power (Sentō-ryoku) list
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lunar2
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bizness86
Nov 10 2011, 07:30 PM
lunar2
Nov 10 2011, 02:44 PM
30%, but i'm thinking about going back and reworking that. if what i'm thinking about pans out, it might be 16.7% (1/6).

the 30% rule just comes from vegeta stomping kiwi, anyway. i think what might be more relevant is vegeta stomping dodoria.
well, actually, you're closer to my mindset than I thought.

b has a power advantage over c if(1 - b / c > 15%)
a stomps c if(1 - a / c > 32.25%), or a has an advantage of b who has an advantage over c

Yeah D7 has Dodoria/Zarbon: 22 000/23 000 that's a 10%/5% difference. I'm guessing there was something psychological involved with Dodoria, Zarbon didn't get beat too badly before transforming. I'm thinking other stats were involved.
well, i have dodoria 21,000 and zarbon 22,000, a 14%/9% difference from vegeta, respectively. so if dodoria wasn't such a coward, he might have actually been able to defend himself a tiny bit from vegeta, but still would have lost handily.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Muhahahaha
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Well Vegeta killed Zarbon easily being 11.1% stronger(vegeta 30k and zarbon 27,000) with mid effort. so I think if 2 fighters are less than 10% different in power levels they fight even.
ssj goku 100
ssj gohan 125
FP perfect cell 175-180
SSJ2 goku 300
ssj2 gohan 375
spc 350(probaly could fight even with gohan, I'm not sure)
Cell is 16% stronger and knows all goku's moves so he gets lolstomped.
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lunar2
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vegeta beat zarbon so easily for 2 reasons.

1. zarbon was overconfident because of their last fight. this point was stated twice.

2. vegeta fought dirty. he threw dirt into zarbon's eyes.

if he was far enough ahead of zarbon that he could have stomped him, he wouldn't be depending on zarbon to make mistakes, nor would he have bothered fighting dirty.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Wintergreen5000
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WCZE

I think it would be a good fight. It all depends on how much weaker you think SCC is compared to SSjin 2 Kid Gohan. It was stated that Gohan was in fact "stronger" [as most all of us already know], so, it would be fair to have Gohan around 30% stronger than Goku [Cell Game].

It was also stated by Gohan himself that he had lost over half of his power after taking a damaging blow from Cell. So, the question is, is Cell stronger than Gohan? Or did Cell just happen to hurt Gohan with a lethal attack? Goku mentions that Gohan is holdng power back, and that if he unleashed it all he could beat Cell. But since Gohan stated he had lost half his power, and he eventually kills Cell with this power Goku speaks of, how then could Cell have injured Gohan so badly if he was around 30% weaker than Gohan in the first place?

The only thing I can think of is Cell is close to Gohan's level. That's how he was able to injure him so badly. Even though Gohan did lose half of his chi, he still had high reserves of chi he had not yet used, if that makes sense. This is what later allowed Gohan to overwhelm Cell and finally defeat him.

So, if Cell is close to Gohan's level, then I highly doubt that an SSjin 2 Goku from the Cell game would be able to defeat him, because of how much weaker he is than Gohan. It would be much like Goku's and Cell's match early in the Cell Game. Goku get's burned out and Cell finishes him off.
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lunar2
Nov 11 2011, 05:25 AM
vegeta beat zarbon so easily for 2 reasons.

1. zarbon was overconfident because of their last fight. this point was stated twice.

2. vegeta fought dirty. he threw dirt into zarbon's eyes.

if he was far enough ahead of zarbon that he could have stomped him, he wouldn't be depending on zarbon to make mistakes, nor would he have bothered fighting dirty.
I assume Vegeta being able to sense Ki gave him a huge advantage. Since he could tell exactly how much Ki Zarbon was putting into each part of his body so in a way he knew how Zarbon would attack before he even did it.

Also I think SPC wins. I have MSSj Gohan > MSSj Goku
SPC > SSj2 Gohan so obviously SPC > SSj2 Goku
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Teen GohanZ
Nov 16 2011, 06:22 PM
lunar2
Nov 11 2011, 05:25 AM
vegeta beat zarbon so easily for 2 reasons.

1. zarbon was overconfident because of their last fight. this point was stated twice.

2. vegeta fought dirty. he threw dirt into zarbon's eyes.

if he was far enough ahead of zarbon that he could have stomped him, he wouldn't be depending on zarbon to make mistakes, nor would he have bothered fighting dirty.
I assume Vegeta being able to sense Ki gave him a huge advantage. Since he could tell exactly how much Ki Zarbon was putting into each part of his body so in a way he knew how Zarbon would attack before he even did it.

Also I think SPC wins. I have MSSj Gohan > MSSj Goku
SPC > SSj2 Gohan so obviously SPC > SSj2 Goku
Some would argue that the gap is really small between all of them...

SSjin 2 Goku: 100
SSjin 2 Gohan: 105
SPC: 110

Why, I don't know, but I'd like to see what your thoughts are on the matter, if you desire.
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Umm
MSSj Goku: 100
MSSj Gohan: 115ish
SSj2 Gohan: 230-250 (Possible rage boost)
FPPC: 145-150ish
SPC: 235-240 or 255-260 depending on Gohan.

Cell was confident in beating Cell and Gohan admitted Cell had powered up more than he thought. It's just Goku's line I don't understand, saying Gohan could win even though he had less than half his energy.
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Teen GohanZ
Nov 16 2011, 06:41 PM
Umm
MSSj Goku: 100
MSSj Gohan: 115ish
SSj2 Gohan: 230-250 (Possible rage boost)
FPPC: 145-150ish
SPC: 235-240 or 255-260 depending on Gohan.

Cell was confident in beating Cell and Gohan admitted Cell had powered up more than he thought. It's just Goku's line I don't understand, saying Gohan could win even though he had less than half his energy.
Well, I just meant what would you say to those that think Gohan had something like a 2% lead on Goku at that Cell Games, so they could justify SSjin 2 Goku beating SPC?
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