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DBZ Rumors
Topic Started: Nov 5 2011, 11:19 PM (3,208 Views)
NavonWise
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@SirParagon Gohan couldn't get stronger after Mystic. That's why he couldn't transform SSJ. Mystic brought out everything...

@Kblo247 Well it was never stated that Southern Kai was not overly good. The manga never shows this. All the manga says is, even South Kai who was the strongest among them was no match against Kid Buu.
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Kblo247
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I know that. I'm saying he is never stated to be overly good or joyful either. What I'm saying is that his Yin wasn't enough to battle Buus yang.

And as for the Gohan part, I agree as it relates to Z. But GT says differently as he trained to he rediscovered his SSJ transformation to boost his mystic powers according to the perfect files
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 6 2011, 05:59 AM.
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Copy_Ninja
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Mystic did bring out everything he had at the time, but potential sort of grows back. That's probably not the best word but I can't think of another one. Remember, Gohan had a potential unlock before and he was able to have one again. It seems that, somehow, you can get more potential.
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Mystic simply allows Gohan to use all of his immediate power without the energy consumption drawback of a transformation. He can still become stronger, just as any base form can become stronger.
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NavonWise
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@Kblo247 But only Dai Kaioshin was stated to be overly joyful. I mean at the end, a Kai is a Kai. Shin wasn't stated to be overly joyful either, yet they couldn't use his energy. They couldn't even use Kibito's energy, and technically he's not a Kai. It seems like those who are holy, are bad for Buu's energy. Makes sense I mean, Kais=pure good, Buu=pure evil, mix them both and you get a disaster for Buu, a miracle for us lol.

@Luke_93 It wasn't the same as with Guru though, because Old Kai stated his magic would bring out more than his normal hidden potential. So it's like he technically brought everything out and wouldn't get stronger after that. Unless he stops training or something and gets weaker.
Edited by NavonWise, Nov 6 2011, 06:12 AM.
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Yea personally I've considered old kais unlock to be a different one than all the unlocks in the entire series. I think it brought his body to to it's max potential including the usual hidden power release.

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NavonWise
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Exactly, so it must have been different since Old Kai stated his unlock goes beyond normal limits.
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Kibito Kai never mentioned South Kai made Buu stronger, it was never stated. We never see "Buff Buu" in action so it'll be hard to say how he acted, etc. But again as you said, Kai energy was so pure it messes with Buu's system. It's like mixing positive energy with negative. Not a good mix.

It's stated in Boo's guidebook entry that only Dai Kaioshin made him weaker, so at the very least, South Kaioshin had no effect on him. Since we know Buff Boo > Evil Boo, then the only conclusion is that South made Boo stronger.
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Well in the manga it didn't seem that fast, as he was forming the ball Goku immediately stated they couldn't stop it. He has transformed SSJ3 fast before, I mean if he could have stopped it I think, he should have.

The problem wasn't him transforming. It was him amassing enough chi to stop it. One of the perks Pure Boo has is gathering an immense amount of chi very quickly. There was no way Goku had enough time to stop it.
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But again, Kid Buu was not serious at all, I never see him charge up, nothing like that.

He looked serious to me. He put effort into his Kamehameha, fought evenly with Goku but not anybody else, and even used his Henka Beam (Candy Beam). There was nothing indicating he could power up further. Him pushing the Genki-Dama back is anime-only, and only because Goku lacked stamina.
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I was just looking at the manga, the only times he did not smile was when Goku would attack him, but right away he'll just smile again and attack Goku. And I don't get why people say Goku wasn't at full power. Goku stated he was going to start all out, how is that not full power? All Goku was doing was charging up to get one final blast, similar to what Piccolo did with Raditz.

The problem wasn't Goku being at full power (in the beginning). It was that he didn't have a chance to hit Boo with any kind of charged attack, like he told Vegeta.
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And yeah I know, but calling Super Buu Evil Buu, which yeah that's who he is, get's a bit confusing because how do you call Evil Buu, the skinny grey one?

It's probably because of the English anime, or the Viz translation. Here you go. Should help a bit.
Edited by Pyrus, Nov 6 2011, 09:42 PM.
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NavonWise
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 6 2011, 09:41 PM
It's stated in Boo's guidebook entry that only Dai Kaioshin made him weaker, so at the very least, South Kaioshin had no effect on him. Since we know Buff Boo > Evil Boo, then the only conclusion is that South made Boo stronger.

The problem wasn't him transforming. It was him amassing enough chi to stop it. One of the perks Pure Boo has is gathering an immense amount of chi very quickly. There was no way Goku had enough time to stop it.

He looked serious to me. He put effort into his Kamehameha, fought evenly with Goku but not anybody else, and even used his Henka Beam (Candy Beam). There was nothing indicating he could power up further. Him pushing the Genki-Dama back is anime-only, and only because Goku lacked stamina.

The problem wasn't Goku being at full power (in the beginning). It was that he didn't have a chance to hit Boo with any kind of charged attack, like he told Vegeta.

It's probably because of the English anime, or the Viz translation. Here you go. Should help a bit.
Well if South Kai didn't have any effect on Kid Buu, that means he couldn't have made him stronger or weaker.

Well yeah I see what you mean.

I guess this is a matter of opinion, cause honestly it didn't seem like Kid Buu was trying. Well in the manga Kid Buu actually did push the Genki dama, he didn't send it back to Goku, but you can see Kid Buu take a few steps when having the Genki dama.

Yeah I always knew Super Buu was actually Evil Buu, I called him Super Buu so we wouldn't get confused.
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I think South Kai didn't impact his mind or personality, which is why I said his yin didn't balance Kid Buus Yang. He obviously gave him a stronger body IMO, not that he wasn't already durable.
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NavonWise
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Maybe stronger body but since it's stated that Southern Kai didn't have an effect on Kid Buu, clearly means he didn't make him stronger in power.
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Well if South Kai didn't have any effect on Kid Buu, that means he couldn't have made him stronger or weaker.

But he clearly did have an effect on Pure Boo. It's not specified in his guidebook entry, but it's stated in two mediums that Dai Kaioshin made Boo weaker, and we have a statement on Buff Boo's power, and that's that it's more than Evil Boo's. That can only mean that South Kaioshin increased Boo's power.
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I guess this is a matter of opinion, cause honestly it didn't seem like Kid Buu was trying. Well in the manga Kid Buu actually did push the Genki dama, he didn't send it back to Goku, but you can see Kid Buu take a few steps when having the Genki dama.

You're still thinking of the anime. Pure Boo wasn't able to push the attack back at all in the manga. He was only able to hold it in place. Goku got his stamina refreshed too quickly for Boo to do much of anything else.
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NavonWise
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All Dai Kaio did was restricted Buu to use more of his power. As you said if South Kai did not have any effect on Buu when he first absorbed him, then he couldn't have made him stronger. The removal of Good Buu turned Buu back to his original form but again if Southern Kai did not have any effect, when his power rose how could it have been South Kai's doing when it was stated he had no effect on him?

http://www.mangareader.net/105-3166-7/dragon-ball/chapter-517.html

It looks as if he took a step or something. Either way, Buu took that Genki dama seriously, he was scared when he saw it but smiled when he saw he stopped it.
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All Dai Kaio did was restricted Buu to use more of his power.

I'd say he weakened Boo.
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As you said if South Kai did not have any effect on Buu when he first absorbed him, then he couldn't have made him stronger. The removal of Good Buu turned Buu back to his original form but again if Southern Kai did not have any effect, when his power rose how could it have been South Kai's doing when it was stated he had no effect on him?

It wasn't stated he had no effect on him. The only logical conclusion is that he did make Boo stronger, otherwise Buff Boo couldn't be stronger than Evil Boo.
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http://www.mangareader.net/105-3166-7/dragon-ball/chapter-517.html

It looks as if he took a step or something. Either way, Buu took that Genki dama seriously, he was scared when he saw it but smiled when he saw he stopped it.

He's just holding it. I'm not sure what him smiling when he stopped it has to do with him somehow being suppressed up until that point.
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NavonWise
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I wonder if it's the same lol

You said in Buu's guide, it states Southern Kai had no effect on him. Again, if South Kai made Buu stronger when Buu absorbed him then it contradicts statements and clues we have of Kai energy not working or not mixing with Buu's.

Yeah seeing it more, it kind of does looks like he's just holding it. And it shows a lot, up until he saw the Genki dama, he was never scared or worried. Up until he sees it, and holds it you see him try with everything he's got, at least that's how I saw it.
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