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Did Cell know kaio-ken?; If so, why didn't he use it?
Topic Started: Oct 25 2011, 05:35 AM (2,679 Views)
Copy_Ninja
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Novacane for the pain

He said he knew the spirit bomb and Goku learned Kaio-ken at the same time, so why wouldn't he know it? I know some people doubt that he can actually do it, but wasn't it said that he got Goku's cells from the fight with the Saiyans, when he already knew both techniques?
Anyway, if he does know kaio-ken, why didn't he use it against Gohan? He should be able to at least double his power and theoretically could possibly use x4. This would have been much better than using that buff state, which he had already told Trunks wouldn't work. I suspect the real answer is that Toriyama either forgot about kaio-ken or didn't want Cell to stand a chance. Can anyone think of an in universe answer?
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+ Pyrus
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Lunar made an excellent theory on this. When he sees this, he should be able to help out greatly.

My opinion? I think he had the ability, but it would've hurt him instead of helping him. Kaio-ken was a dangerous technique. I'm not sure Cell would've known how to do it correctly.
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Fourth Doctor Who
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Mark of the Crimson Dragon

Cell mostly uses Makankosappo, Kamehameha and Death Beam. He said in Dragonball Z Kai that he can use Kaio-ken and Genki-dama. I'm not sure why he doesn't use other moves he claimed he can do.
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+ Clearin
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I don't know why he didn't use it. Maybe it's not the kind of thing that can be given through cells? Or maybe when he had saiyan cell's he could some kind of Super Saiyan thing (Which is actually kinda true in the anime as he has a golden aura) and I don't think Super Saiyan's can use Kaioken.

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My opinion? I think he had the ability, but it would've hurt him instead of helping him. Kaio-ken was a dangerous technique. I'm not sure Cell would've known how to do it correctly.

Well Cell managed to do pretty much every other technique without ever practicing them, so I assume that he gained direct knowledge on how to use it. Otherwise he wouldn't claim to be able to make a spirit bomb because it takes a lot of training like the kaioken.
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Wolf
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Shadow Realm >

Most likely he did. There's no evidence he didn't. He also said he gained all of his powers too so.....
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Seruphim
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Cell's Angel

Well, Kaio-ken serves to amplify your power, right? It's a multiplier like SSJ. Cell already thought he was powerful enough I bet and didn't see the use for it. He may have underestimated its power and then just completely forgot about it later
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Wolf
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Shadow Realm >

That or he just didn't know he had it.
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lunar2
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with other techniques, they were weak until he practiced them. piccolo stated that cell's kamehameha in ginger town wasn't anything special, implying that he actually needs to practice a technique to use it effectively.

the problem with the kaioken is that it requires perfection (no, not that kind). if cell makes a single mistake while using it, his ki could go out of control and rip him apart. on top of that, he would have just blown off all his ki, so he might not even be able to regenerate.

so, basically, cell could have done the kaioken, but likely deemed it too risky to try, since a mistake might very well kill him. that's why he used ki weighting instead. it's not as effective, but it's much safer.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Fourth Doctor Who
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lunar2
Oct 25 2011, 07:25 PM
with other techniques, they were weak until he practiced them. piccolo stated that cell's kamehameha in ginger town wasn't anything special, implying that he actually needs to practice a technique to use it effectively.

the problem with the kaioken is that it requires perfection (no, not that kind). if cell makes a single mistake while using it, his ki could go out of control and rip him apart. on top of that, he would have just blown off all his ki, so he might not even be able to regenerate.

so, basically, cell could have done the kaioken, but likely deemed it too risky to try, since a mistake might very well kill him. that's why he used ki weighting instead. it's not as effective, but it's much safer.
You're right on Cell knows the risks of Kaio-ken but also genki-dama has a risk as well.

Kaio-sama said something misusing Genki-dama is dangerous as you could destroy a planet you're trying to protect. I'd say Kaio-sama's techniques are risky moves.
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lunar2
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cell wouldn't worry about that. besides, it's not like he ever used the genki dama, either. he just said he could probably do it if he tried.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Victorious
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He shows SSJ, USSJ 2, and later after his zenkai/return SSJ2 aura traits. So IMO he gets his power through Super Saiyan properties and i'm a firm believer than Super Saiyan >>> Kaioken x 20 even. So IMO Cell would just get weaker in Kaioken x 20 even than he would at full power using his pseudo SSJ forms.
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lunar2
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he doesn't have super saiyan forms. his aura just resembles ssj. and ussj isn't an actual transformation no matter who does it. roshi did something similar, as did frieza. it's not a form, it's a basic technique that nearly anyone can do, once they figure it out. besides, who said you can't use kaioken with ssj? just because they didn't, doesn't mean they couldn't.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Destiny
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Kaio-ken is a technique and seeing as how he knew Kamehameha wave it's not to farfectched to say he doesn't know this either.
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Mihawk
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Sailor Venus
Oct 26 2011, 12:59 PM
lunar2
Oct 25 2011, 07:25 PM
with other techniques, they were weak until he practiced them. piccolo stated that cell's kamehameha in ginger town wasn't anything special, implying that he actually needs to practice a technique to use it effectively.

the problem with the kaioken is that it requires perfection (no, not that kind). if cell makes a single mistake while using it, his ki could go out of control and rip him apart. on top of that, he would have just blown off all his ki, so he might not even be able to regenerate.

so, basically, cell could have done the kaioken, but likely deemed it too risky to try, since a mistake might very well kill him. that's why he used ki weighting instead. it's not as effective, but it's much safer.
You're right on Cell knows the risks of Kaio-ken but also genki-dama has a risk as well.

Kaio-sama said something misusing Genki-dama is dangerous as you could destroy a planet you're trying to protect. I'd say Kaio-sama's techniques are risky moves.
Cell can't use genki-dama. He probably knew how to do it but he can't use it since he doesn't have a pure heart (or is that anime only?).

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Destiny
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illstand1
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Sailor Venus
Oct 26 2011, 12:59 PM
lunar2
Oct 25 2011, 07:25 PM
with other techniques, they were weak until he practiced them. piccolo stated that cell's kamehameha in ginger town wasn't anything special, implying that he actually needs to practice a technique to use it effectively.

the problem with the kaioken is that it requires perfection (no, not that kind). if cell makes a single mistake while using it, his ki could go out of control and rip him apart. on top of that, he would have just blown off all his ki, so he might not even be able to regenerate.

so, basically, cell could have done the kaioken, but likely deemed it too risky to try, since a mistake might very well kill him. that's why he used ki weighting instead. it's not as effective, but it's much safer.
You're right on Cell knows the risks of Kaio-ken but also genki-dama has a risk as well.

Kaio-sama said something misusing Genki-dama is dangerous as you could destroy a planet you're trying to protect. I'd say Kaio-sama's techniques are risky moves.
Cell can't use genki-dama. He probably knew how to do it but he can't use it since he doesn't have a pure heart (or is that anime only?).


Didn't Krillen do it? Though what constitutes as "Pure Heart" was never made clear in the series as far as the anime goes at least.
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