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| Political Views | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 18 2011, 03:25 AM (3,184 Views) | |
| Meowth | Nov 18 2011, 03:54 PM Post #61 |
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Nice subtle way to insult my opinion there, real smooth, you're clearly the bigger person in this argument. Why would I use force against you just because you don't agree with me? I don't believe in violance and it's not a crime to have a differing opinion. You essentially attacked my opinion by labeling it as "close-minded" just because you don't agree with me, you aren't budging from your position, so that would equally make your opinion close minded. |
 
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| SirParagon | Nov 18 2011, 03:59 PM Post #62 |
Sparking!
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Hey, gotta cut this discussion off somehow, (need to sleep.  )I guess it is a little unfair, I didn't mean to insult your opinion, it's just that you said you have zero faith in humanity. I'm glad you can respect my right to a different opinion, there are many people who would flat-out refuse especially when it comes to things like taxation. E.g. if I did not support a war my country was waging, I should have the right to refuse to pay taxes that goes towards funding it. Edited by SirParagon, Nov 18 2011, 04:05 PM.
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New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism? | |
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| Mihawk | Nov 18 2011, 04:02 PM Post #63 |
 
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The first humans were born without state and "peace" and they eventually created violence and a government to counter the violence and disorder. Being without government is not a progressive concept, it's actually extremely regressive. |
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| Meowth | Nov 18 2011, 04:17 PM Post #64 |
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I do have little faith in humanity because there are a lot of stupid and ignorant people out there, who, if given the chance will act on their discriminations, it happens with laws and I think it would happen more if there was no form of government. The idea of no government, peaceful living and so forth is nice and it would be great but I don't see it as anything more than a fantasy at the moment. Maybe instead of no government, a solution would be a unified government? Such as that which exists in Star Trek, the United Earth goverment and I believe they exist in a society without tax, this is possibly one example of one things that I believe is more likely to happen than no government. |
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| + Pelador | Nov 18 2011, 04:25 PM Post #65 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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They also don't have any currency what so ever. They do things for the good of the planet and the federation. Whilst that's great and all, it's hard to imagine people willing to work their asses off and all they get at the end of it is a pat on the back. Attitudes can change dramatically of course and one day people might have the mindset to work purely for the state. Also They have machines which can change energy into matter. So money is kind of pointless anyway. |
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| Mihawk | Nov 18 2011, 04:58 PM Post #66 |
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Without violence there is no concept of peace. With the concept of peace and no violence, the existence of temptation comes into play. The origin of mankind is a good example as to why "no government" can't work. Humans were born with no concept of violence, therefore no temptation of violence, and eventually because of our nature even the most pure of us was violent. Disorder would wreck eventually, leading for even the most original of us to realize that there would have to be some governing order. If someone gets killed in a no government society, will it just be ignored? Who will find out how it happened? Random people, not equipped for murder cases? The FBI finds fraud all the time and without a constant lookout for fraud, "ostracization" can never happen. A lot more people will get away with stealing and fraud simply because there is no constant lookout. Personally I find the answer in small democratic government of the people and by the people. That seems to work the best and people can have a lot of say. The only time the government gets to step in is during fraud, violence, and similar. Pure anarchy is a fundamentally and infinitely flawed concept and our original ancestors realized that as we became progressively intelligent. We are human, and being not human (perfect) is something we are good at not matter how many angles you try. |
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| Cal | Nov 18 2011, 05:22 PM Post #67 |
I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade!
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Where is the plus one button? Oh, found it. |
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| Mihawk | Nov 18 2011, 05:32 PM Post #68 |
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I dun know if that was a sly way of telling me what human nature isn't constant but it's nice to make sense and realize what you're saying once in a while. If we're progressive we won't go back and make mistakes that have made before. So yes humans are constantly changing, there's no need to go backwards. |
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Nov 18 2011, 05:47 PM Post #69 |
 
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Post remove, flamebait and zero contribution ~R Edited by Rogue, Nov 18 2011, 05:52 PM.
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| Cal | Nov 18 2011, 05:56 PM Post #70 |
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I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade!
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To be fair 90% of people on this board wouldn't know how to go about a debate that has anything to do with philosophy. It wasn't directly toward you. |
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Nov 18 2011, 09:58 PM Post #71 |
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Honestly, I know hardly anything about philosophy because it doesn't really apply to me and I have little interest in it. The Bible is all I need. So yeah, I agree with Cal. 
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| DanielSan | Nov 19 2011, 12:43 AM Post #72 |
 
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I think the weirdest thing about this was I was just having a conversation just like this earlier. I am just going to give you my thoughts. I been reading most of the new posts and I will now give an overall reply. I used to believe that humans where always the same even as we go on, but now I do believe that humans are constant; they change over time. In my opinion a complete anarchy will not work at all. I read the book called the lord of the flies. We all seen what happened to them. I don't want to spoil it, but they basically screw the place up. Even with a full anarchy someone will always try to get the power and rule the area. In my opinion we need both regulation and freedom. Too much of both isn't good. |
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| SirParagon | Nov 19 2011, 01:52 AM Post #73 |
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Sparking!
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We're already living the majority of our lives in anarchy, anything which is separated from government like relationships, recreation, career, etc. We all enjoy having these choices and we're capable of making mutually beneficial interactions without the presence of a gun. I stand by my assertion that the state is a dire immorality which should be abandoned regardless of how a privatised society could work. If you believe that we are what our experiences dictate and that a child can be disciplined without primitive physical punishment (they can), then you should be able to envision a society that does not require the use of force to remain peaceful and orderly. Instead of proclaiming our differences and trying to justify violence we should be embracing universal altruism.
Edited by SirParagon, Nov 19 2011, 01:53 AM.
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New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism? | |
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| + Pelador | Nov 19 2011, 03:24 AM Post #74 |
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Crazy Awesome Legend
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You talk about force and violence but in reality there is very little. When there is, it's usually justified. We don't remain peacful and orderly because of a fear of force. We are peaceful because we live fulfilling and comfortable lives. We have no need to rise up against our leaders. If we don't like the way something is run, we can vote to have it changed. You always bring up notions of violence and force but never state any examples.
Edited by Pelador, Nov 19 2011, 03:25 AM.
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| SirParagon | Nov 19 2011, 11:48 AM Post #75 |
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Sparking!
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The force we experience domestically is surreptitious, it's the underlying threats that beat us into submission. On the other hand, the force government likes to employ overseas is much more direct. Sure, plenty of people live acceptable lives as things stand, plenty of people also lived acceptable lives while slavery was still in affect - this isn't the point. The point is that the unnecessary obligation of force contained within government solutions is immoral. The initiation of force is never justified (my stance). Unfortunately, democratic voting in theory is not the same as democratic voting in practise. Same goes for freedom of speech (as we have seen regarding some of the occupy protests). To me, there's no greater 'voting' mechanism than the free market because that's what a purchase is, a purchase is a vote. Edited by SirParagon, Nov 19 2011, 12:06 PM.
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