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| Zenkai's After Freeza | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 13 2011, 09:36 AM (4,102 Views) | |
| NavonWise | Nov 10 2011, 06:44 PM Post #31 |
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They were never beaten to the point where they almost died. And again, the gap was too big for them to make a change. Zenkai was already established in the Frieza, Akira wouldn't btea talking about the same thing over and over when we know happens when you almost die and come back. |
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Nov 10 2011, 06:55 PM Post #32 |
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How do we know a zenkai would or would not help? The only one noted after the Freeza arc certainly seemed to help Perfect Cell. He went from being two shot fodder to breaking SSJ2 kid Gohan's arm with a simple generic ki blast. Goku in the Freeza arc gets a 33x zenkai....goes from 90,000 to 3,000,000....Vegeta also went from 30,000ish to around 500,000....that's like 15x Buuhan is less than twice as strong as Ultimate Gohan and if Gohan even got a small one it would have made a difference. Yet Buuhan laughs and says Gohan may be healed but his power didn't increase. No zenkais after Super Saiyan, there's 0 evidence.
Many of them were unconscious, after Vegeta's battle with Goku or Recoome he wasn't even unconscious. Plus Vegeta's arm got snapped by Android 18's kick...he looked to be in worse shape after that fight then any of the other ones I remember.
I believe Android 17 told Krillin if Krillin doesnt give them all senzu beans they might die. Many of the battles where the Super Saiyans get beat up seem even worse IMO. Edited by Victorious, Nov 10 2011, 06:59 PM.
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| freexa | Nov 10 2011, 07:09 PM Post #33 |
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After the Frieza saga, the power levels got so huge that noting zenkai was all but useless except for in Cell's case because not only did he get blown the f up, he had to pretty much regenerate his whole body in space. The increase that anyone else got that wasn't noted in the series probably didn't get a substantial enough increase to matter. |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 10 2011, 07:28 PM Post #34 |
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A broken arm wouldn't kill someone. Vegeta after Recoome's beating was bleeding out. He would've died for sure. |
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Nov 10 2011, 07:38 PM Post #35 |
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I don't see how Vegeta was any worse after Recoome or Zarbon or Goku, then he was after Android 18, Perfect Cell, etc. Or Gohan against Buutenks than he was against Freeza. It's just bs...there's no zenkais after Freeza. No one is ever noted to get one except for Perfect Cell after his self destruct. And then it's quite plainly shown, implied, stated, and whatever else that he actually got one. I like many other fans just believe Toriyama abandoned the concept after the Freeza arc and the Saiyans reached Super Saiyan status. And since no Super Saiyans ever were shown or implied to get them, I agree with the original poster that AT just intended them to help the Saiyan get closer to Super Saiyan. I also think once a Saiyan gets closer to Super Saiyan (or rather the base level a Saiyan needs to have to turn Super Saiyan) the zenkais become much larger than usual...and perhaps potential also plays a role too. |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Nov 10 2011, 07:49 PM Post #36 |
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possible (or certain) instances of Zenkai after Frieza: Vegeta from Initial Perfect Cell: Vegeta was bad off, I believe there was a Krillin statement about it. Cell from self-destruction: duh Gohan from Energy extraction: shrugs; would he have died? Gohan from Buu: definition of near death. HE GOT IT!!! XD !@!! not instances of Zenkai: Goku from #19: Goku wasn't beaten near lifeless from #19. Vegeta from #18: Vegeta only had his arm broken. Goku from Heart Virus: Goku wasn't brought to near death. Cell from Goku: Instantaneous Movement + Kamehameha did not bring him to near-death. |
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| freexa | Nov 10 2011, 07:56 PM Post #37 |
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Goku was in a coma man. That's pretty near death if you ask me. |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 10 2011, 07:56 PM Post #38 |
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I don't have the moves for Gohan, but Vegeta wasn't about to die from #18. He was bleeding profusely against Zarbon and especially Recoome. Against Cell, when would there have been a comment on his strength? He was never the focus at any point. Besides, the SEG states zenkais just become miniscule. |
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Nov 10 2011, 09:16 PM Post #39 |
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I don't remember Vegeta having any more blood against Zarbon or Goku than against Android 18. I don't see how he was closer to death at all after his battle with Zarbon than after his battle with Cell or the Androids. Both times he was knocked unconscious and he either needed to be healed with a senzu bean or the rejuvenation tank to get back on his feet. Edited by Victorious, Nov 10 2011, 09:22 PM.
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| NavonWise | Nov 10 2011, 09:38 PM Post #40 |
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Being unconscious is not the same as almost getting killed. With Zarbon and Recoome Vegeta was badly hurt, losing blood, etc. With 18, all he had was a broken arm and got knocked out, but it doesn't mean he was about to die. Vegeta was about to die by Krillin's blast back in the Frieza saga and he was still conscious. |
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| + Pyrus | Nov 10 2011, 09:39 PM Post #41 |
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Vegeta after Zarbon: ![]() Vegeta after Recoome: ![]() Vegeta after #18: ![]() You can't tell me Vegeta doesn't look more *****ed up after fighting Recoome and Zarbon than he does after fighting #18. He took the senzu after fighting #18 because his arm was broken. Other than that, the only thing wrong with him was his pride; he was physically okay and wasn't going to die. He would have bled out and died against Freeza's forces. Edited by Pyrus, Nov 10 2011, 09:40 PM.
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| NavonWise | Nov 10 2011, 09:55 PM Post #42 |
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As I said, being unconscious does not mean your about to die, and after Frieza there weren't many times that this happen. And again, there were no more PL readings, who knows if the enemies were far away from them for a zenkai to be noticed. Also isn't that one of the reasons why Saiyans are so damn powerful? Because they train till almost dying and get healed back? We saw this with Goku when he was going to Namek. |
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Nov 10 2011, 10:23 PM Post #43 |
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He wasn't going to bleed to death fighting Freeza's forces, 18 opened a bigger blood gash on his head with that headbutt she gave him than anything Zarbon gave him. She also snapped his arm back and broken bones alone can mean your blood flow will get all out of whack.
Zarbon and 18 knocked him unconscious, Recoome didn't. But I don't think it really matters. I honestly can't believe anyone is arguing Super Saiyans can get zenkais....there are 0 implied or noted zenkais (other than Cell) after Super Saiyan. |
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| NavonWise | Nov 10 2011, 10:31 PM Post #44 |
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Because it was not stated, anywhere. What that is, is an idea, not a fact. |
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Nov 10 2011, 10:34 PM Post #45 |
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Check how *****ed up Buuhan made Gohan, he gets healed next page gets 0 power increase. ![]()
Yeah it was not stated, noted or implied. Notice when Cell got a zenkai it's noted, stated, implied, etc. "I've powered up like son Gohan" "must have been my brush with death", etc. Edited by Victorious, Nov 10 2011, 10:36 PM.
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