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Who is the most powerful human?
Topic Started: Oct 10 2011, 10:02 PM (5,676 Views)
Cocoman
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Kblo247
Oct 16 2011, 10:05 AM
Yamcha never qualified "amongst humans" to his daughter. He said it to himself that Krillin was the strongest human fighter there was. You got to go back and read.

Nowhere in the manga says Krillin didn't train for 7 years. Gohan points out that he grew his hair and stopped training now that he had a family. His daughter was 3 which would leave there being a 3 1/4 year there for him to train and still be stronger than Tien just like he was post Namek where Tien had a heck of a gap between them especially when you account for the fact Krillins percentage gains were higher anyhow between the two way back when they had equal and individual training or the saiyans.

And let's get really technical here and printout the fact is that there is owhere in the manga that says Tien even trained for a days those 7 years post cell games. He was never written as having been training, after turning down ROSAT and outing that he was outclassed. Krillin at least has something showing him training with 18.

And once again Akira has said Krillin was most powerful behind UUB amongst humans.

As for the stalling part, good job by Tien at doing no damage to Cell at all. Krillin stalled with Frieza but actually you know, hurt him by cutting him once before. And as for the detonation switch, what are ou talking about? There was no switch to blow them up. They had a turn off switch that deactivated them and made it possible to destroy their inactive bodies. Krillin didn't kill an innocent being who had done no evil at any time in her life, just like Goku wouldn't, Gohan wouldn't, Vegeta wouldn't, or Piccolo wouldn't because it would be a cop out and break the warriors code similar to how he refused to give a senzu to Goku vs Cell while Yamcha/Tien/Trunks look in disbelief unless if he asked for the battle crutch. 18 and 17 showed him and his friends mercy and he returned the favor; yeah he had feelings for her but he also did the exact same thing he was taught to do by Goku and respect/protect the lives of the innocen?

And as for the last note, Vegeta doesn't specifically say that. He says Gohan has lost his fighting sense and was stronger as a brat when he killed Cell. He pointed out how if Gohan was to get enraged again he might pose a problem, and Goku also in the manga pointed out that Gohan had to use his anger to tap into his true power again like versus Cell before sending him off to stop Buu from being released. Gohan was weaker because he admittedly couldn't find that anger within to tap into that power; Gohan said it himself in the manga, Goku said it, Vegeta opted the fact he could be much stronger just by getting,ad again like when he was a kid, and Shin urges him to do as Goku advises and get angry. It is on you to prove that Tien trained at all in 7 years or that Krillin didn't train before he knocked 18 up as the manga only states that Yamcha and Gohan don't train during those times of peace.
You can't even quote the manga properly. He says 'among Earthlings'. If he said among humans then that would mean Krillin>Goku.

Tenshinhan had 260~days on Kaio's to get stronger. Krillin doesn't make larger percentage gains lol. Tenshinhan is the one who went from being weaker than Piccolo Daimao's underling to stronger than Piccolo Daimao himself in db.

Tenshinhan does nothing else apart from train. It's his general attitude. If you actually read the manga you would realize this. Also you're referring to Krillin sparring with 18 when in fact that's pure filler. In the training for the Budokai Krillin is shown training by himself.

And once again AT never said that lmao

As for the rest of what you said you are just talking pure garbage. You just keep making baseless statement after baseless statement.
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I think Krillin got to about 350,000-400,000 by the time Tien is revived and Tien at about 300,000. Then I have Tien training harder and longer than Krillin. So that's why I don't have Krillin above Tien. Even if I put Krillin at 700,000 (Which is the highest I would consider) then Tien could close that gap easily imo.

Edited to change Tien's PL which I put a bit too high last time.
Edited by Clearin, Oct 16 2011, 01:02 PM.
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Cocoman
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Kblo247
Oct 16 2011, 08:50 AM
Krillin.

He was stated to be in the manga by Yamcha. Yamcha said he wa the strongest fighter there is to his daughter, but thought "amongst humans anyway" in his head in the manga. The author openly has stated in interviews that aside from Uub, Krillin was e strongest human there was at the end of z.

Also there is never any indication that Tien caught up to him after Namek. Krillins power constantly grew on Namek from the fight with Recome at 13k to being well over 20k vs Ginyiu in Gokus body. In fact vegeta remarks in Kai and Goku in the manga that both Gohan and Krillin held back to stop from hurting Gokus body as they were stronger. His power grew even further from that battle to the fight versus Frieza, just like Gohans, and Vegeta makes note in the manga, Z, and Kai that both Krillin and Gohan could help him take Frieza because of the way their powers were still growing just avoiding the pop shots Frieza took at them.

Tien would have to get bigger gains than Goku percentage wise at Kai's place which isn't logical because he isn't a saiyan and cannot learn the kaioken. Krillin even got a bigger percentage jump in Kamis training than Tien iirc. When both were on earth waiting for goku to return and Friezas arrival Tien was not shown to be training at any time in the manga or show, whereas Krillin was shown at least once training at Kame house. After the 3 years of android prep, Krillin even states that the only reason he wasn't as confident as Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan was that he didn't have a SSJ transformation to fal back on which is actually quite telling of a comment since all the z fighters had to go on was the fact the androids were supposed to be stronger than Trunks who was stronger than Frieza ki wise.

Tien had two feats with his neo and regular tribeam. He pushed by 2nd form cell, but didn't hurt him by using his life force and he deflected a blast that was shot at Dende by Buu. He never even displayed any physical power to even knock anyone off balance in those arcs unless if you want to count him and Yamcha in filler hitting a cell jr together, and if you do count it you have to admit Krillin at least knocked Cell back in filler by ramming him and was able to dodge the cell jrs attacks until he was blindsided by a different one.

Even in the Buu arc, Krillin goes with the guys and has no hesitation about fighting opponents at Friezas level when Shin mentioned him.. He only gets intimated by Davura who was thought to be Cell/ssj2 tier. There is also this misguided perception that Krillin sat on his butt for 7 years after the Cell games which was never stated. He was the strongest human post Namek and at the games and an argument could be made that he still trained for 3-4 years until 18 got pregnant. In fat you could even argue that he trained and sparred with her which gives him a significant edge over any training Tien does since all he can do is spar with Chioutzu who was the weakest of the z fighters in the saiyan saga even though Yajirobe didn't even bother training hard. Krillin also states he has a chance to to finish well when the saiyans said they wouldn't go super at the tournament after just a month or so of shaking off rust with 18. And once again if you throw in filler Krillin was shown sparring evenly with Goten at the lookout and Yamcha who dominated Olibu in otherworld.

No matter how you slice it Krillin wins. The manga says it. The creator of the story says it. The facts he was the only human relevant throughout Z says it. The fact he had a power up which according to Vegeta "saw his speed and strength grow exponentially" and "kept on constantly growing" says it.

The only thing people can hang to for Tien is his tribeam which did no damage to Cell and hit a Dende level blast away, and that Goku sent Krillin, his best friend, away with Yamacha initially which ignores the fact he also sent away Gohan, his son to tend to Yajirobe to keep them safe from being sucked into a battle just like versus the Saiayns, Ginyu Force, and Frieza.

I'm just going to say once again that you are making baseless statements not supported by anything at all.
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What is false?

The fact Tiens power jumped 7 fold with God training and Krillins jumped 8?

The fact his power grew and was still growing on Namek?

The fact Tien was never mentioned to train post cell games either, but people want to use his DB characteristics while ignoring that he declared himself inferior before the cell games?

The fact the neo tribeam is über amplified and has no measure on his base strength, just like when Gohan used an enraged Masenko to hurt Frieza, Picoolo used a SBC to kill Raditz despite his base power being weak, and Goku used the kaioken amplifications to surpass Vegeta for bursts despite being weaker in his base form before?

Did he not deflect a blast kent to hit Dende instead of Gohan?

Is it not thought by Yamcha that he is the strongest human or earthling depending in translation? Has Toryiama not said that Krillin is behind only Uub as humans/earthlings go to end Z in an interview?

Is there any passage that says Tien surpassed Krillin post Namek or any tv episode for that matter?

Is there anything that says Krillin sat on his butt for 7 years and never trained, while Tien did?
* don't give me some implied bs


Is there anything to ever suggest Tien got bigger gains from Kai's training than Goku percentage or fold wise despite nit of them not being thought of as worthy enough to be taught kaioken or spirit bomb, and him not being a saiyan or Namek?

Was Krillin not written as the only human fighter to go into battle in every arc against every villain at some point, while Tien and Yamcha and the clown sat on the sidelines?

And theoretically if you imply that both men trained for any part post cell games despite it not being written, can you honestly say training with 18 isn't better than with Chioutzu who was the weakest 7 fighter back even in the saiyan saga when all men completed their god training as Yajirobe wasn't over 900 compared to his level that was closer to 700, and the fact he was said to be too weak to even be brought into the android battle?


What feats are there besides pushing Cell back down and not even scratching him or deflecting the blass from Buu meant for Dende which shows him as being powerful and not just having 1 particular user amplified pushing attack? And don't you think that if he was so strong that the gap between him and them was less than Krillin and Nappa or Krillin and Frieza that he could at least scratch or hurt them like Krillins DD did?
Edited by Kblo247, Oct 16 2011, 08:49 PM.
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Fulgore
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Pretty sure if Buu Expended the same amount of energy to kill a PEDESTRIAN, he'd exert the same amount of energy to kill dende or Gohan for that matter. Human Extinction attack was powerful enough to kill ANYONE on earth. Including 17 (Who I'm assuming was STRONGER THAN 18) So. 17 died, Tenshinhan lived.
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@Kblo, Most of your points are completely irrelevant.

As for your 1st point, I think you're referring to the Daiz number for Krillin which is contradicted by the manga. On Namek his pl is taken as ~1,500.
In the Saiyan battle Tenshinhan is shown to be in the same league as Piccolo vs the Saibamen while Krillin, well, simply can't be considering a pl of 1,500 wouldn't have been unable to 1 shot a Saibamen in the same way Tenshinhan did and Piccolo basically did.

In short it is actually more likely that Tenshinhan progressed more at God's place than the others.

Also another point i'd like to make is that you keep referring to Tenshinhan's 'haxed techniques' when in fact Krillin is responsible for 2 of the most op techniques in the series (scatter shot vs Saibamen and the kienzan's). At least in the Shin Kikoho's case it is just a multiplier of the user's strength while in the Kienzan's case no matter how weak the fighter who uses it is, the kienzan could cut through ANYTHING.

It is pure Krillin fanboyism to say Krillin>Tenshinhan at any points other than possibly the Trunks and Android arcs when it has been shown that overall Tenshinhan can make up huge gaps through training.
Edited by Cocoman, Oct 16 2011, 10:08 PM.
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Scatter Shot isn't even close to being OP. It's strength (Which probably isn't even that high) is compensated by it's speed.
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Teen GohanZ
Oct 16 2011, 10:13 PM
Scatter Shot isn't even close to being OP. It's strength (Which probably isn't even that high) is compensated by it's speed.
I meant in a power sense and well Piccolo said it had great power before it split up.
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Fulgore
Oct 16 2011, 09:59 PM
Pretty sure if Buu Expended the same amount of energy to kill a PEDESTRIAN, he'd exert the same amount of energy to kill dende or Gohan for that matter. Human Extinction attack was powerful enough to kill ANYONE on earth. Including 17 (Who I'm assuming was STRONGER THAN 18) So. 17 died, Tenshinhan lived.
The thing is we don't know if 17 was killed by Super Buu since he has no power signature to be sensed to even send a blast at. And if he did get hit it had to do with him not knowing how to sense a blast coming. Tien and Chiatzu could sense the attack coming and dodge it

And @ coco they are irrelevant because you know the answers aren't pro Tien. You can't substantiate credible replies to them and you know it. It was also never implied that 1500 was their max when arriving on Namek, just what they raised their powers to one shot the goons of Frieza who shot their ship
Edited by Kblo247, Oct 16 2011, 11:45 PM.
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Cocoman
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Kblo247
Oct 16 2011, 11:44 PM

And @ coco they are irrelevant because you know the answers aren't pro Tien. You can't substantiate credible replies to them and you know it. It was also never implied that 1500 was their max when arriving on Namek, just what they raised their powers to one shot the goons of Frieza who shot their ship
But they were visibly straining themselves when powering up. They were ~1,500 and that's manga fact.
Edited by Cocoman, Oct 16 2011, 11:53 PM.
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I give you that they strained themselves but Zarbon also says they were around 1500 and just disappeared. I always took that as them pushing their power for an instant to on shot the goons and then suppressing it right after. I think they wouldn't be able to just push their max down so easily in an instant, even of small because there' is shown to be stress and then a noted drop, not disappearance when people power up to 100%
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Yeah they only powered up enough to one-shot the goons. Piccolo says Gohan is stronger than himself if he puts his mind to it.
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#17 CANT SENSE ENERGY. He most definitely was killed, you're just being silly now.

Coco can continue debating with you, but you're just pulling conjecture out.
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#17 has no energy or life signature which means he also can't be sensed by Super Buu to even get a blast aimed at him from Kames tower where you can pretty much sense every being there is. you can formulate an argument that says he only died when Kid Buu blew up earth.

You got to come better unless if you forgot 17 and 18 can't be sensed by anyone including god.
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Cocoman
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Kblo247
Oct 17 2011, 12:03 AM
I give you that they strained themselves but Zarbon also says they were around 1500 and just disappeared. I always took that as them pushing their power for an instant to on shot the goons and then suppressing it right after. I think they wouldn't be able to just push their max down so easily in an instant, even of small because there' is shown to be stress and then a noted drop, not disappearance when people power up to 100%
You do realize Goku raised his pl and lowered it so fast that the scouters didn't pick it up right? The fact that they raised their pls like that suggests that they were trying to intimidate the goons. Why else would they prolong it like that when they could have easily did what Goku did?

They clearly exerted themselves and that's the end of it.
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