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- Perfect Cell (50% Full Power) v Dabura
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| Perfect Cell (50% Full Power) v Dabura | |||||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 26 2011, 12:58 AM (3,582 Views) | |||||
| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 06:49 AM Post #76 | ||||
 
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vegeta insulted goku because he ALWAYS insults goku. nearly every reference to goku that comes from vegeta's mouth is an insult of some sort. goku wasn't expecting that amount of power from vegeta. of course he wouldn't, because vegeta just got an unnatural power up that goku wasn't expecting. goku hadn't been told yet about the power up associated with possession. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |||||
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Oct 2 2011, 07:12 AM Post #77 | ||||
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I had made the point in one of those referenced topic that it would have been blasphemy for either Goku or Vegeta not to have achieved SSJ2 in that 7 yr period. They just didn't know how strong the other had become. Vegeta felt Goku transform for Yakon and realized that Goku was the stronger of them. Majin Vegeta is the first time Goku feels Vegeta's power as a SSJ2, and is surprised that Vegeta is marginally equal to him. He stated so during their battle, but Vegeta admits to provoking Babidi to bridge the unchanged gap in their power. Overall, they both should have known that the other had achieved SSJ2. Gohan set the bar for how strong they should be. If neither of them had gotten that strong at least, then what's to stop another Cell-tier villian to wreak havoc, I know Vegeta wouldn't stand for being saved by Gohan twice...  Gohan was still beastly... he was just dull in comparison to his former at Cell. I'd liken it to playing chess. Gohan knew how to checkmate when he was a kid; not so much after 7 yrs away from the game... And again to the topic - if you go way back, you'll see my thoughts; (SEG) I claimed that Cell was using nearly 2/3's of his power against Goku, and evidently Dabra (as a SSJ-tier) was >= that. So 50% Cell gets beat. |
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Oct 2 2011, 12:47 PM Post #78 | ||||
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Perfect Cell vs Goku : According to Wiki, Goku ranks evenly without Cell using even half of his potential. Dabura vs SSJ2 Gohan : According to Vegeta, Gohan wasn't even half as good as Vegeta, or even half as good as Gohan was during his fight with Cell. Based on the two statements, it can be said that Cell vs Dabura will be an even fight. Dead even. Cell's regenerates, while Dabra spits. But then again, Goku could've finished Cell with the powerful Instant Kamehameha, while Gohan could've just used the attack which he used during Buu's hatching, (it was gold colour, insanely awesome & poweful as well). In the end, you can only classify the case as a draw.. |
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Oct 2 2011, 06:45 PM Post #79 | ||||
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Still, it's heavily implied that Super Saiyan is all that is required to take out Dabura. Considering that Gohan was a Super Saiyan, that's very easy to swallow. |
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| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 08:06 PM Post #80 | ||||
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but gohan may not have been just an ssj. he has mixed traits from both mssj and ssj2, and there are plot and logic elements for both forms. so no, there is no clear implication that super saiyan is all that's required to beat dabura. | ||||
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |||||
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| + Pyrus | Oct 2 2011, 08:15 PM Post #81 | ||||
 
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You got that from the Dragonball Wiki, did you? I would like you to provide the sources for those two statements, because as far as I'm concerned, they're baseless assumptions, and the second one is just wrong. And the color of Gohan's Kamehameha doesn't really matter, I don't think. It's just the animation teams picking and choosing really. |
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Oct 2 2011, 08:26 PM Post #82 | ||||
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Luckily for us, Goku does a demonstration of exactly what Super Saiyan and what Super Saiyan 2 look like. Gohan showed Super Saiyan 2 at the Budokai, and Super Saiyan against Dabura. |
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| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 08:39 PM Post #83 | ||||
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except that the artwork in the dabura fight was inconsistent. in some panels, he appeared to be clearly mssj, in others he appeared to be clearly ssj2, and in still others, he had traits from both. 2 examples (one for each form) are: 1. no lightning. lightning is a hallmark of the ssj2 form, and they are rarely (but sometimes) drawn without it in the manga. 2. hair. mssj gohan has a single short fat bang, while ssj2 gohan has a single long thin bang. for most of the dabura fight, gohan has the long thin bang, although he does occasionally have the short fat bang, as well. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |||||
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| + Pyrus | Oct 2 2011, 08:54 PM Post #84 | ||||
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Yeah, which is why I'm set on lightning being a trait of Super Saiyan 2, and not something that comes with a certain amount of power, which is what the opposing side argues. Goku didn't go Super Saiyan 2 and say "This is what it looks like when one is as powerful as me", he transformed and that's what we had go off of. |
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Oct 2 2011, 09:02 PM Post #85 | ||||
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Lightning is used to show strength all the time. From early Dragonball, to early DBZ, everywhere. Lightning is used all the time to suggest something is strong. Hence Dabura's attack on Gohan has lightning in it... Lightning, is also used, as a specific trait for Super Saiyan 2. So all Super Saiyan 2's always have lightning in their aura. At least 99% of the time. As we can see, Gohan goes like a couple of chapters without one thing of lightning. That boy a Super Saiyan. |
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| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 10:15 PM Post #86 | ||||
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lightning is a signifier of strength, no more, no less. injured ssj2 gohan vs. super perfect cell had no lightning. ssj2 majin vegeta had no lightning after his fight with goku, until he ate a sensu bean. ssj vegito had lightning when he transformed. lightning isn't consistent enough to use by itself as an indicator of form. when combined with other traits, it is an indicator of ssj2, but there are ssj2 saiyans without lightning, and there are saiyans that aren't ssj2 with lightning. | ||||
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |||||
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Oct 2 2011, 10:35 PM Post #87 | ||||
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Lightning is requirement for SSJ2. Lightning is used other times not for SSJ2. If your a SSJ2, you should be showing lightning at least a majority of the time. |
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| lunar2 | Oct 3 2011, 02:14 AM Post #88 | ||||
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lightning is not required for ssj2, just like ssj2 is not required for lightning. you can repeat your little catchphrases all you want, but the fact remains that there are points where gohan was definitely an ssj2 without lightning. the fact that it happened even once proves that lightning is not a consistent trait of ssj2. even at this point, lightning is merely a trait of great power, not a specific trait of any form. and one thing we can agree on is that at this point in the series, gohan does not have a great power no matter what form he's in. you have no evidence that gohan was definitely not an ssj2, only evidence that he definitely was not powerful. | ||||
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |||||
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Oct 3 2011, 02:25 AM Post #89 | ||||
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per Super Gohan's post, Older Gohan took a power blast from Dabra and barely received a scratch. Young Gohan, who was supposedly better as a fighter, took a simple enough kick from a Cell who wasn't even at his fullest; blood broke from that kick. How could a lesser Gohan take a powerful hit from a Cell-tier character and not show damage, and yet a greater Gohan takes a simple kick and bleeds from it? http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8351549&t=8313124 This info was in the links provided in earlier post. If you haven't even read that, I would recommend reading through them. |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Oct 3 2011, 03:01 AM Post #90 | ||||
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