- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- Dragon Ball
- →
- Dragon Ball Versus
- →
- Perfect Cell (50% Full Power) v Dabura
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| Perfect Cell (50% Full Power) v Dabura | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 26 2011, 12:58 AM (3,583 Views) | |
| lunar2 | Oct 1 2011, 11:39 PM Post #61 |
 
|
and how could that cell be stronger than dabura, when dabura was first stated to be about as strong as cell, and then stated to be even stronger than that, because of his use of magic. dabura (initial thoughts) ~ cell (either suppressed or super, depending on gohan's form). dabura (true ability) > dabura (initial thoughts) ~ cell from that, how exactly do you get cell (suppressed) > dabura? |
|
list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
 |
 
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 04:28 AM Post #62 |
|
Dabura is about as strong as Suppressed Cell, who fought 50% MSSJ Goku, USSJ Vegeta , USSJ2 Trunks. Well at least that's what Goku's first estimation of him is... Dabura is a lot stronger than that , stated by Goku, and is as strong as a Mastered Super Saiyan, which is quite impressive. Gohan was far better as a brat, but he's still a Mastered Super Saiyan. Dabura and SSJ Teen Gohan , are probably only a few steps below MSSJ Goku was at the Cell Games. |
|
|
|
| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 04:52 AM Post #63 |
|
ahh. i see where we are getting mixed up at. when i say suppressed perfect cell, i'm referring to the level cell used against full power goku and mssj gohan at the cell games, not initial perfect cell, the level used against vegeta, trunks, and suppressed mssj goku. goku never stated what level of cell he was referrng to, just that dabura was about as strong as cell, and would have been a problem 7 years ago. well, among perfect cell's levels, only suppressed, full power, and super would have been a problem from goku's perspective, so that rules out initial perfect cell. beyond that, we can tentatively rule out full power perfect cell, unless gohan was massively weaker than he was before. since he wasn't stated to be massively weaker, just weaker, neither his mssj nor his ssj2 line up with full power perfect cell, ruling out that level of cell, by my numbers. so, if gohan was an mssj vs. dabura, then goku compared dabura to suppressed perfect cell, which is the highest level that goku fought cell at. if gohan was an ssj2 vs. dabura, then goku was referring to super perfect cell. either way, dabura's actual power is about the same as one of those levels of cell, it's just that his use of magic makes him a more dangerous opponent overall. personally, i think gohan was an ssj2, but there is roughly equal evidence for both sides of that debate, so i usually give responses from both perspectives. in the case of this vs., though, either dabura stomps this level of cell, being 2.6x as powerful as him, or dabura get's stomped, being only 2/3 as powerful as him, by my numbers. |
|
list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 04:58 AM Post #64 |
|
Well let me clear up the terms for you. This is the list I use, which IMO, is the most reasonable way to do it... Initial Perfect Cell The fake power Cell put out when he first transformed. This is stated to have gotten stronger than Semi Cell FP , but Vegeta ( USSJ ) is still better at everything. Suppressed Perfect Cell ( Or Initial Perfect Cell True Power ) This is the power he used to fight 50% MSSJ Goku / USSJ Vegeta / USSJ2 Trunks Suppressed Buff This is his buff power he used to show off to USSJ2 Trunks Powered up PC The power he used to fight MSSJ Goku/ Gohan Full Power Perfect Cell Power he used against SSJ2 Gohan Full Power Buff Powered used against SSJ2 Gohan Super Perfect Cell getting a zenkai The real key to figuring out what Goku was referring to is looking at Gohan. Gohan is a Super Saiyan, who is far weaker than SSJ Kid Gohan. SSJ Kid Gohan, logically isn't far stronger than SSJ Goku at the Cell Games. So since SSJ Teen Gohan is weaker than MSSJ Goku, and thus Powered Up Cell, Goku's estimation should be around a power around Suppressed Perfect Cell. Goku then watches Dabura fight SSJ Teen Gohan, and says that Dabura is a lot stronger than he thought. Which means his first estimation is a lot weaker than SSJ Teen Gohan, who is weaker than Powered Up Cell and MSSJ Goku. We on the same page now? |
|
|
|
| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 05:20 AM Post #65 |
|
yes, i understand where your coming from. now here's where i disagree, 1. mssj gohan at the cell games was quite a bit stronger than goku, a full 30% by my numbers. 2. gohan from the 25th budokai to his beating from buu, while weaker than he was as a kid, wasn't far weaker. the amount of power he lost was never specified in any way, it was only mentioned that he did lose power. i still have him stronger than cell games goku, although not by much. 3. gohan was ssj2 against dabura, although this point really doesn't matter to anyone except dabura, and i'm on the fence enough about this that i usually give responses from both perspectives. so, with those 3 differences of opinion, dabura is about as powerful as super perfect cell, and a moderately better overall fighter, because of his magic. if gohan was only an mssj, than just replace super with powered-up in that last sentence, and it still fits perfectly. |
|
list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 05:42 AM Post #66 |
|
Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan ( When finishing Cell ) , is stated to be , FAR , FAR BETTER than Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan at the Budokai. Super Saiyan Kid Gohan, is stated to be far stronger than Super Saiyan Teen Gohan ( When fighting Dabura ) These are indisputable facts of the story. Time to blow your mind. Regardless of whatever you put Dabura at, Super Saiyan Goku AND Vegeta are both superior to that. So your going to shoot yourself in the foot, if not reasonable, but both Goku and Vegeta both are surprised that the other has Super Saiyan 2, and had no qualms about the others confidence going up against Dabura. So Gohan being a Super Saiyan 2 seems quite unlikely, seeing as how SSJ Goku and Vegeta are stronger than whatever Gohan was. Which was drawn as Super Saiyan, and no reason to dispute that, but just saying. |
|
|
|
| + Pyrus | Oct 2 2011, 06:03 AM Post #67 |
 
|
You should've been here when Super Gohan was tearing it up (complimenting you, Gohan  ). Have I got a topic for you, bro.http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8311136/2/#new |
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 06:06 AM Post #68 |
|
Good stuff Kamikaze. So most of you guys should be on board with... SSJ Goku/Vegeta > Dabura >= SSJ Gohan Right? |
|
|
|
| Kruegs Outlandish | Oct 2 2011, 06:09 AM Post #69 |
|
hellz f*kin yeah guy! I was there. Super Gohan is God of War! edit: oh yeah, lol @ that other sh*t... Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Oct 2 2011, 06:10 AM.
|
|
|
|
| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 06:10 AM Post #70 |
|
nope. the words far, a lot, or anything similar were never used to describe the difference between kid and teen gohan. kid gohan was merely stated as better, no descriptors used. also, neither goku nor vegeta express surprise that the other has achieved ssj2. and gohan's appearance vs. dabura is weird mix of mssj and ssj2 traits. it is one of the least consistent pieces of artwork in the entire manga. add to that the mix of plot and logic elements surrounding that fight that i won't get into, and it basically comes down to opinion what form gohan is in. |
|
list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
|
|
|
| Kruegs Outlandish | Oct 2 2011, 06:17 AM Post #71 |
|
[adds this topic] http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8313124/6/#new Super Gohan d-stroys. ROAR! |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 06:21 AM Post #72 |
|
Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2 Context: as Dabra fights Gohan Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?” Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…” Goku: “He really did slack off!” Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6 Context: as Gohan fights Dabra Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!” Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let him do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.” Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P10.5 Context: after Goku makes Yakon explode with his Super Saiyan aura Vegeta: “So that bastard Kakarot has also surpassed that wall…The Super Saiyan wall…” Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4, P9.4 Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m going to end this quickly, at maximum power.” Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!” *Vegeta transforms into a Super Saiyan 2 as well* Goku: “This don’t look like it’s gonna end quickly…” Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P6.1-2 Context: after Majin Boo quickly reaches full power Kaioshin: “Th-that’s impossible…Wh-why has Goku’s damage energy [filled it up] already…!?” Gohan: “…I-I know…! Father is fighting at a level that has further surpassed Super Saiyan…Vegeta probably is too…If-if two incredible powers like that clash, th-the damage is astounding too…!” Herms doesn't have it, but Vegeta says that Gohan was far,far better when he finished off Cell regarding Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. So that should clear up that dispute. |
|
|
|
| lunar2 | Oct 2 2011, 06:29 AM Post #73 |
|
where does it say that? in all the quotes you gave, there was no expression of surprise from either goku or vegeta about each other, merely statements of fact. and they only say that gohan was stronger as a kid, not how much stronger. |
|
list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
|
|
|
|
|
Oct 2 2011, 06:36 AM Post #74 |
|
Why would Goku be a bastard, if he did something Vegeta was already anticipating? Why would Goku think that it would end quickly if he knew Vegeta had SSJ2? |
|
|
|
| + Pyrus | Oct 2 2011, 06:40 AM Post #75 |
|
@p123: Vegeta just says Gohan was stronger as a kid. He doesn't specify any amount. Still, I wouldn't say someone of 104 is weaker than when they were 105. It would have to be something noticeable, which is why I don't think Gohan lost a huge amount, but he definitely lost more than 5-10% in my mind. @your last post: Goku didn't expect Vegeta to be that strong. Edited by Pyrus, Oct 2 2011, 06:40 AM.
|
|
Spoiler: click to toggle
| |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
 |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Versus · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:47 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy