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Neutrinos MAY have broke cosmic speed limit
Topic Started: Sep 23 2011, 07:02 PM (789 Views)
Cal
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I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade!

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A meeting at Cern, the world's largest physics lab, has addressed results that suggest subatomic particles have gone faster than the speed of light.

The team presented its work so other scientists can determine if the approach contains any mistakes.

If it does not, one of the pillars of modern science will come tumbling down.

Antonio Ereditato added "words of caution" to his Cern presentation because of the "potentially great impact on physics" of the result.

The speed of light is widely held to be the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his theory of special relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.


Quote:
 
Neutrinos come in a number of types, and have recently been seen to switch spontaneously from one type to another.

The Cern team prepares a beam of just one type, muon neutrinos, and sends them through the Earth to an underground laboratory at Gran Sasso in Italy to see how many show up as a different type, tau neutrinos.

In the course of doing the experiments, the researchers noticed that the particles showed up 60 billionths of a second earlier than they would have done if they had travelled at the speed of light.

This is a tiny fractional change - just 20 parts in a million - but one that occurs consistently.

The team measured the travel times of neutrino bunches some 16,000 times, and have reached a level of statistical significance that in scientific circles would count as a formal discovery.


But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit.

That has motivated them to publish their measurements.

"My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato told BBC News.

But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".


You're probably thinking well why is this a big deal?!?!

Well if this test is continued and repeatedly gives us the same results there will be a dent in Einstein's Theory of Relatively the size of a watermelon.

As I've said countless times on here, don't take that theory to heart. It was impossible to know back then because of the lack of things to test. Alright so if we put a dent in his theory of relativity, what does that mean?

It means time travel is very possible. I know what you're thinking, "omg Cal is so trolling!" But, I am not. It has also been a fact that if we travel faster than the speed of light we would literally jump into the future, however Einstein said it wasn't possible for anything to go faster than the speed of light, well looks like he was wrong, so if we can somehow harness this speed, we will be on a one way track out of the theory of relativity.


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Naruto-Gogeta
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I heard about this on another forum.
Interesting stuff. It will have upended centuries of science rules if this is true.

The only problem is, we won't be able to use this for space travel for a long, long time, if ever.
The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie.
"We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..."

Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!!

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lunar2
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it doesn't contradict einstein at all. einstein simply stated that no particle WITH MASS can travel at a speed equaling or exceeding the speed of light. and MASSLESS (mass = 0) particles, such as photons themselves, can travel at speeds up to and including, but not exceeding, the speed of light. however, that leaves an entire weight class unaccounted for, the negative mass particle. if the tau neutrino's do travel slightly faster than light, it simply means that they have slightly negative mass. and so, einstein's relativity remains intact, with slight adjustments to account for those particles with less than 0 mass.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Cal
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lunar2
Sep 23 2011, 08:10 PM
it doesn't contradict einstein at all. einstein simply stated that no particle WITH MASS can travel at a speed equaling or exceeding the speed of light. and MASSLESS (mass = 0) particles, such as photons themselves, can travel at speeds up to and including, but not exceeding, the speed of light. however, that leaves an entire weight class unaccounted for, the negative mass particle. if the tau neutrino's do travel slightly faster than light, it simply means that they have slightly negative mass. and so, einstein's relativity remains intact, with slight adjustments to account for those particles with less than 0 mass.
No. Einstein said that as particles get up to the speed of light, they GAIN mass, and therefor can't go faster than the speed of light. Because as they gain mass they slow down more than intended. Therefor he believed you CAN'T go faster than the speed of light. These tests are laying the ground work to rethink everything that was ever wrote in a science text book about this coming from EInstein. The real result will come after every lab in the world has received the same conclusion, if that happens.

Quote:
 
Particle physicists detect neutrinos travelling faster than light, a feat forbidden by Einstein's theory of special relativity


http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/22/faster-than-light-particles-neutrinos

This isn't some small "well he was off a bit, let's add a few words to his theory to fix it" this contradicts the base of the theory.
Edited by Cal, Sep 23 2011, 08:33 PM.


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Optimus Banana
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I doubt we will get the tech to harness there speed. By then humans will most likely have died out or destroyed ourselvies. And you don't have to go the speed of light though, just approach it to travel forward in time. Astronauts are time travelers. While only by like a thousanth of a second. They were only going 20,000-30,000 mph. If we could 100,00 or 1 million mph for say a month we would be further into the future.
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Cal
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About 37 Llamas
Sep 23 2011, 08:32 PM
I doubt we will get the tech to harness there speed. By then humans will most likely have died out or destroyed ourselvies. And you don't have to go the speed of light though, just approach it to travel forward in time. Astronauts are time travelers. While only by like a thousanth of a second. They were only going 20,000-30,000 mph. If we could 100,00 or 1 million mph for say a month we would be further into the future.
The thing is, people said we would never have anything travel faster than the speed of light to begin with. If these tests are consistent, then the groundwork for relativity, mass, speed of light, time travel, etc will all change.

I can't wait to hear the results from the other labs that are going to be working on this. People may not realize this, but this will truly be something amazing.


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Don't tachyons travel faster too? They've been known about for awhile.
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Naruto-Gogeta
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About 37 Llamas
Sep 23 2011, 08:44 PM
Don't tachyons travel faster too? They've been known about for awhile.
No. This is an absolute breakthrough in science if it's true. Einstein's famous theory of relativity will be proven wrong. Entire centuries of science theories and rules will be destroyed.

But how long until they prove/disprove this? Is it really faster than the speed of light?
The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie.
"We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..."

Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!!

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Cal
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I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade!

About 37 Llamas
Sep 23 2011, 08:44 PM
Don't tachyons travel faster too? They've been known about for awhile.
That's a great question, unfortunately we're not even sure they (tachyons) exist.
Edited by Cal, Sep 23 2011, 08:59 PM.


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Naruto-Gogeta
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Cal
Sep 23 2011, 08:56 PM
About 37 Llamas
Sep 23 2011, 08:44 PM
Don't tachyons travel faster too? They've been known about for awhile.
That's a great question, unfortunately we're not even sure they exist.
The chances of them existing are fairly small, sadly. In a way they're only hypothetical.
I believe they haven't proven yet at all, but they haven't been disproved either.
The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie.
"We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..."

Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!!

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JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/

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Cal
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I may not deserve to live, but I will protect those in my reach with my reverse blade!

Naruto-Gogeta
Sep 23 2011, 09:00 PM
Cal
Sep 23 2011, 08:56 PM
About 37 Llamas
Sep 23 2011, 08:44 PM
Don't tachyons travel faster too? They've been known about for awhile.
That's a great question, unfortunately we're not even sure they exist.
The chances of them existing are fairly small, sadly. In a way they're only hypothetical.
I believe they haven't proven yet at all, but they haven't been disproved either.
The fact the no scientist step forward and say, "these exist" pretty much makes them null in any intelligent conversation about passing the speed of light. But yeah, the chances they exist are so small it's not even funny.


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Cal
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Naruto-Gogeta
Sep 23 2011, 08:56 PM


But how long until they prove/disprove this? Is it really faster than the speed of light?

~Naruto Gogeta
Sorry for the double post, just saw this. Well as we know, countless experiments have to be done all reaching the same result to be considered a scientific law or even a strong theory.

I would say at least a year, but I honestly have no idea.

Something worth knowing though, is that if this ends up being right, time/space will change forever. Now, getting humans in the future would take some time, but getting data/information etc is immediately possible.


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Naruto-Gogeta
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Cal
Sep 23 2011, 09:30 PM
Naruto-Gogeta
Sep 23 2011, 08:56 PM


But how long until they prove/disprove this? Is it really faster than the speed of light?

~Naruto Gogeta
Sorry for the double post, just saw this. Well as we know, countless experiments have to be done all reaching the same result to be considered a scientific law or even a strong theory.

I would say at least a year, but I honestly have no idea.

Something worth knowing though, is that if this ends up being right, time/space will change forever. Now, getting humans in the future would take some time, but getting data/information etc is immediately possible.
Interesting stuff. I shudder to think of all of the laws and theories that will have to be looked at again and re-evaluated if this is true.
The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie.
"We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..."

Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!!

Posted Image

JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/

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+ Havoc_Wreaker
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yeah really cool my friend posted this on Facebook just read some of the article like 10 minutes ago
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lunar2
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personally, i think it was simply measuring the flaw in the measuring device. of course, that's why they need independant experiments made with different sets of equipment.

they also need to account for other possibilities, such as a minor shift in the distance the neutrinos traveled due to fluctuations in space/time.

i think, for such a small variance from the accepted speed, that there are way too many variables to say with any certainty that the neutrinos actually were speeding.

and, beyond that, what if the idea of relativity was correct, but the measurement was wrong? what if the speed limit is actually something like 1.0000001x the speed of light, and light is actually affected by relativity just like everything else?
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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