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Pan (EoZ) VS Yamcha (EoZ); Fight
Topic Started: Sep 14 2011, 07:53 AM (4,522 Views)
+ Pyrus Sep 15 2011, 03:43 AM Post #31
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 It doesn't matter if it's a copout. Pan would've been as powerful either way.
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LionFangFist Sep 15 2011, 03:53 AM Post #32
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^ no the cop outs were ways to get the children able to fight on equal ground with enemies they should normally have no chance against. in the case of pan however there were no new enemies so no need to give her extraordinary power
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lunar2 Sep 15 2011, 04:18 AM Post #33
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 but the power was already there. even if you feel like it was some kind of cop-out, the fact remains that the children of powerful warriors are born with high power, as well. the workings of the universe itself don't change just because the story is ending. and guess what? pan was born to THE most powerful warrior in existence, THE mightiest of warriors, gohan. therefore, based on what happens within the dragonball universe concerning children of powerful warriors, since gohan is THE mightiest of warriors, pan is THE mightiest of children.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ supersaqer Sep 15 2011, 05:21 AM Post #34
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Transcendent

Do you think that Pan can defeat 75% to 100% Final Form Frieza? I don't think even Goten and Trunks can do it, I think Cell Games Base Goku can only defeat 75% Frieza and stops there, so there you have it plus Teen Gohan (Cell Games) can only beat 85% Frieza.
Pan isn't a planet buster or even a mountain buster, so how do you think she would win against a planet buster like EOZ Yamcha? I think Chiautzo is the weakest Z-Fighter and he can still beat Pan with 1 single dodonray.
I can see that Pan has the same feats that Kid Goku from the 21st budokai had, so her power level would not surpass 150 plus even Master Roshi at full power with an Original Kamehameha could kill her :p .
I have Pan at the end of the Omega Shenron Saga about 30,000,000 - 50,000,000 that's for me.
Starting from hundreds and ends being in millions plus Pan's PL is about 100,000,000 - 110,000,000 or even 120,000,000 when she became old.
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POOHEAD189 Sep 15 2011, 05:33 AM Post #35
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 I have nothing against pan at all. Mainly because I never saw GT. But this is a Yamcha stomp. I dont even think they would fight, because it would be child abuse. Pan would LITERALLY go crying home to her mommy.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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+ Pyrus Sep 15 2011, 05:35 AM Post #36
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supersaqer
Sep 15 2011, 05:21 AM
Do you think that Pan can defeat 75% to 100% Final Form Frieza? I don't think even Goten and Trunks can do it, I think Cell Games Base Goku can only defeat 75% Frieza and stops there, so there you have it plus Teen Gohan (Cell Games) can only beat 85% Frieza.
Pan isn't a planet buster or even a mountain buster, so how do you think she would win against a planet buster like EOZ Yamcha? I think Chiautzo is the weakest Z-Fighter and he can still beat Pan with 1 single dodonray.
I can see that Pan has the same feats that Kid Goku from the 21st budokai had, so her power level would not surpass 150 plus even Master Roshi at full power with an Original Kamehameha could kill her :p .
I have Pan at the end of the Omega Shenron Saga about 30,000,000 - 50,000,000 that's for me.
Starting from hundreds and ends being in millions plus Pan's PL is about 100,000,000 - 110,000,000 or even 120,000,000 when she became old.
Pans feat far surpass Goku's, and both the Base boys were at least on par with #18.
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POOHEAD189 Sep 15 2011, 05:43 AM Post #37
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 Well, they were close to her power, but not quite there yet.
And I think Pan is way stronger than Goku was as a kid, and radizt, and many others. Although Im not sure if she is strong enough to be a planet buster actually. I don't think Goku would have trained a child enough to blow up a planet, when she is obviously...a child. They would be scared 24/7.
Tha gaol agam ort. <3
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SirParagon Sep 15 2011, 05:45 AM Post #38
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Sparking!

 Can't we just accept that things get delightfully ludicrous during the Buu Saga where little kids have the potential power to annihilate planets more effectively than the first big bad? AT was totally taking the piss, you cant deny that. We love him for it.
Edited by SirParagon, Sep 15 2011, 05:51 AM.
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Voluntarism?
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+ supersaqer Sep 15 2011, 06:45 AM Post #39
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Transcendent

Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 15 2011, 05:35 AM
supersaqer
Sep 15 2011, 05:21 AM
Do you think that Pan can defeat 75% to 100% Final Form Frieza? I don't think even Goten and Trunks can do it, I think Cell Games Base Goku can only defeat 75% Frieza and stops there, so there you have it plus Teen Gohan (Cell Games) can only beat 85% Frieza.
Pan isn't a planet buster or even a mountain buster, so how do you think she would win against a planet buster like EOZ Yamcha? I think Chiautzo is the weakest Z-Fighter and he can still beat Pan with 1 single dodonray.
I can see that Pan has the same feats that Kid Goku from the 21st budokai had, so her power level would not surpass 150 plus even Master Roshi at full power with an Original Kamehameha could kill her :p .
I have Pan at the end of the Omega Shenron Saga about 30,000,000 - 50,000,000 that's for me.
Starting from hundreds and ends being in millions plus Pan's PL is about 100,000,000 - 110,000,000 or even 120,000,000 when she became old.
Pans feat far surpass Goku's, and both the Base boys were at least on par with #18.
18# was wished back to be a Human in the Original Japanese DBZ show, so that would make her lose 50% - 60% or even 75% - 80% of her powers during the 7 years plus I think that Gohan has lost 30% - 40% of his power because he's a half Saiyan and I think Vegeta would lose 10% - 20% or even 30% of his powers if he hasn't trained during the 7 years as I think.
___________________________________________
I think 18% PL is about 450,000,000 - 500,000,000 at best, so losing 50% - 80% would make her weak plus she was holding back.
As I think Yamcha was training a little bit and that was making him a bit weaker than 18#.
18# > The Boys (Both are stronger than Yamcha, one on one, they should lose) > Yamcha > Kid Pan plus leaving a Kid flying in the planet with a power level of 1,000 should make sense, Kid Goku with a power level of 124 - 130 was searching for the dragon balls and Pan is at least x8 - x9 stronger than that! so it would make sense.
Yamcha is a lot stronger than what do you think plus some people think that EOZ Tien would lose to Early DBZ Piccolo Pre-Raditz fight!
As I think that Tien in EOZ is stronger than SSJ1 Goku who fought Frieza, maybe as strong as SSJ1 Trunks.
Tien > Krillin > Yamcha > Chiautzo.
Tien : 175,000,000 - 180,000,000.
Krillin : 150,000,000 - 160,000,000.
Yamcha : 120,000,000 - 130,000,000.
Chiautzo : 100,000,000 - 110,000,000 or weaker to be 80,000,000 - 90,000,000 or even stronger to match Frieza 120,000,000 or just 115,000,000.
______________________________________________________________
I think Tien, Krillin and Yamcha is enough to take down 18# and Chiautzo is an overkill.
If they learned Kaio-ken, they would be invincible and if they trained in the RoSaT 2 times, then they would be stronger than Cell Games Saiyans (with few exceptions) to be as strong as Buu Saga Saiyans (with few exceptions).
I think that the Humans limits in the Kaio-ken is x25 - x30 as I think.
BTW, Yamcha curbstomps and beats her really really really bad.
Edited by supersaqer, Sep 15 2011, 06:49 AM.
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lunar2 Sep 15 2011, 02:07 PM Post #40
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 #18 wasn't wished back into a human in ANY version of the series. shenron couldn't grant that wish, so krillin had her self destruct device removed. the fact is, base trunks, while in a costume that restrcted his movement, without the use of his legs, dragging around goten who was no more than dead weight, and without even powering up, was fighting more or less evenly with #18, who is just as powerful as ever.

base trunks (heavily restricted) ~ #18

base trunks (regular) >> #18

pan's feats are much greater than 21st budokai goku's. 21st budokai goku couldn't fly around the world. pan flew around the world so fast that no one even got worried about her, meaning that she couldn't have been gone more than a couple of hours. to put that in perspective, it would take buu arc base gohan 13 hours to circle the earth 1 time. pan flies several times faster than buu arc gohan, and therefore has much higher ki output. it's that simple.

pan >> buu arc gohan ~ buu arc trunks >> #18 >> any earthling.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Clearin Sep 15 2011, 03:37 PM Post #41
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lunar2
Sep 15 2011, 02:07 PM
pan's feats are much greater than 21st budokai goku's. 21st budokai goku couldn't fly around the world. pan flew around the world so fast that no one even got worried about her, meaning that she couldn't have been gone more than a couple of hours. to put that in perspective, it would take buu arc base gohan 13 hours to circle the earth 1 time. pan flies several times faster than buu arc gohan, and therefore has much higher ki output. it's that simple.

pan >> buu arc gohan ~ buu arc trunks >> #18 >> any earthling.
Saiyan Saga Goku flew 1 million KM in about 24-48 hours iirc. And if my math is correct (Probably not) it means Goku was flying at a minimum of 20,833 KM Per Hour.

According to a quick Google search the Earth is: 40,075.02km
It'd take Saiyan Saga Goku about 2 hours maximum to circle the Earth once assuming everything I did was correct.
Buu Saga Gohan can't possibly have been that slow.
Edited by Clearin, Sep 15 2011, 03:38 PM.
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lunar2 Sep 15 2011, 06:19 PM Post #42
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 1,000,000 km is filler. the distance of snake way is never mentioned in the manga. all we know is that it took goku 2 days to travel it.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Clearin Sep 15 2011, 06:22 PM Post #43
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lunar2
Sep 15 2011, 06:19 PM
1,000,000 km is filler. the distance of snake way is never mentioned in the manga. all we know is that it took goku 2 days to travel it.
I'm not sure about the original but the Viz manga says one million KM (Volume 2 page 19)
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lunar2 Sep 15 2011, 07:03 PM Post #44
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 what is the exact wording? what i found says that the legend say it's over a million, not that it was actually a million km.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Clearin Sep 15 2011, 07:06 PM Post #45
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lunar2
Sep 15 2011, 07:03 PM
what is the exact wording? what i found says that the legend say it's over a million, not that it was actually a million km.
Goku: H-How long is it...?
Oni dude: The legend says it's about a million kilometers.

That's the exact wording of the Viz translation.
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