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Gohan unlocked potential vs Goku unlocked potential
Topic Started: Sep 12 2011, 08:05 PM (4,473 Views)
Optimus Banana Sep 13 2011, 02:23 AM Post #61
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 I would say Gohan cause his dormint power is huge compared to Goku's.
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Paikuan extreme Sep 13 2011, 04:24 AM Post #62
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SirParagon
Sep 13 2011, 01:25 AM
lunar2
Sep 13 2011, 01:20 AM
when will people learn not to use english dictionaries to define translations of japanese words? did you realize that the word potential is never actually used in the manga? what we call potential is always referred to as hidden power or dormant ability, and it's definition is this:


Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P4.9, P5.1-2
Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power
Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?...*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”
Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”
Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hiding?...”

straight out of goku's mouth.

dormant ability: a person's true power, that they have hidden all along.

are you saying that goku actually had the ssj3 ki within him way back in dragonball? that his relatively undeveloped, unconditioned, and still growing body actually had the ability to store THAT amount of ki? of course not.
We're drifting into the territory of potentiality vs actuality. E.g. the actuality of a closed eye cannot see, but it has the potential to see. How we define potential here is important, yes. It could either mean an existing potential or a future potential. You're suggesting that the proper Japanese interpretation is more along the lines of existing potential. In which case we would have to take the two characters from a single saga/point in time, thus the thread's title is too general. On the other hand, if we take it as future potential we would still have to determine a set time they would both fight... which inevitably loops back into existing potential.
EXACTLY!! thank you!! its what IVE been trying to tell them all along, there is always MULTIPLE ways to describe a situation or describe what is depending on the situation, whether its past present or future. In Dragonball? goku was a mutant human BOY, he wasnt a saiyan(saiyajin) UNTIL his retcon IN dragonball Z, PERIOD. So at the time he needed to be? he DID release his inner potential and in fact GOT no stronger UNTIL he got the spiritual training from king kai, which is what helped him set a new precedent, ive been watching him argue this moot point and now its time to admit the truth, the two gokus ARE NOT the same person, they never were, not after the retcon of the character which automatically puts him in alternate universe territory. Thats the truth.

KID goku did release all of his strength with the god water and only got as strong as he needed to be, to defeat piccolo daimao, no more, no less. There is no reason for your argument and no basis. Goku didnt have ANY more potential until the spiritual training. Thus the reason for his disgustingly low PL.
Edited by Paikuan extreme, Sep 13 2011, 04:24 AM.
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lunar2 Sep 13 2011, 04:42 AM Post #63
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 goku got stronger between the daimao arc and the 23rd budokai from his training with kami. or was he wearing weights just for fun? the fact is, there is no alternate universe within the universe. you can talk about out of universe explanations all you want, but there is only 1 goku in the dragonball universe. that goku got a full hidden power release, and then immediately jumped back into training and continued to improve. because akira toriyama defines hidden power as: a person's true power, that they have hidden away all along. there are no reboots or retcons within the series. you don't know when akira toriyama decided on a definition of hidden power, you don't know when he decided goku was a saiyan, you don't KNOW anything besides what is printed within the pages of that manga. we can speculate all we want about some things, but some things are stated and incontrovertible.

stated: goku drank the super god water, which drew out all of a person's hidden power.
stated: goku continued his training right after the battle with daimao, and continued to improve in strength, speed, and ki manipulation.
stated: dormant ability is the person's true power, that they have hidden away all along.
stated: goku is a saiyan born on planet vegeta. this does not contradict anything that happened before it, and therefore there was no retcon.

speculated: goku didn't actually become a saiyan until it was mentioned in the series. since there was never an editorial or authorial reboot or retcon of the series, this is false. goku was a saiyan all along, we (including Akira Toriyama) just didn't know it yet.

what happens out of universe does not affect what happens in universe. there are certain facts in universe that remain true even before they are revealed, unless they contradict facts that are given before. goku was never stated to be a mutant anything until ginyu. his race was never described until after the saiyans were introduced.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

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Destiny Sep 13 2011, 07:02 AM Post #64
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Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 12 2011, 08:34 PM
Gohan's potential was shown to be higher than anybody's. He wins.
No, I disagree I feel the boys(Goten, Trunks,) discrediting G.T of course. But i agree SSJ 3 Goku would be what Ultimate Goku would be pretty much if you ask me.
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+ Pyrus Sep 13 2011, 07:12 AM Post #65
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Sasuke
Sep 13 2011, 07:02 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 12 2011, 08:34 PM
Gohan's potential was shown to be higher than anybody's. He wins.
No, I disagree I feel the boys(Goten, Trunks,) discrediting G.T of course. But i agree SSJ 3 Goku would be what Ultimate Goku would be pretty much if you ask me.
Well, yeah, the kids had more potential than Gohan. I was just thinking of fighters who actually put their potential to good use.
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Jimmeh Sep 13 2011, 08:23 AM Post #66
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 Personally i think Goku, just makes sense. Full blooded Saiyan Warrior (and also the best fighter out of the whole race of Saiyans) vs a Half Breed Saiyan.
Just seems like Goku would win.. He has more warrior in his veins. And didnt SSj Goku hold his own against Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head? Or was that an inaccurate reference to Gohans power as it was just an imagination?
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+ Pyrus Sep 13 2011, 08:49 AM Post #67
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Jimmeh
Sep 13 2011, 08:23 AM
Personally i think Goku, just makes sense. Full blooded Saiyan Warrior (and also the best fighter out of the whole race of Saiyans) vs a Half Breed Saiyan.
Just seems like Goku would win.. He has more warrior in his veins. And didnt SSj Goku hold his own against Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head? Or was that an inaccurate reference to Gohans power as it was just an imagination?
That was filler and made no sense whatsoever.
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Nusu Sep 13 2011, 07:07 PM Post #68
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Jimmeh
Sep 13 2011, 08:23 AM
Personally i think Goku, just makes sense. Full blooded Saiyan Warrior (and also the best fighter out of the whole race of Saiyans) vs a Half Breed Saiyan.
Just seems like Goku would win.. He has more warrior in his veins. And didnt SSj Goku hold his own against Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head? Or was that an inaccurate reference to Gohans power as it was just an imagination?
As Kamikaze kindly pointed out, utter nonsense.

As well, I might add. Son Goku trusted Son Gohan's potential ability's so much, that he risked his son's, as well as the Earth's existence in the Seru Games. So, undoubtably, Son Gohan's potential is huge, and Son Goku knew that first hand. I think if Akira Toriyama intended to give Son Goku potential surpassing Son Gohan's he wouldn't had referenced Son Gohan's potential so much in the manga.

P.S: I do agree that Son Goku is a better warrior/fighter then Son Gohan.
Edited by Nusu, Sep 13 2011, 07:08 PM.
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Saberoph Sep 13 2011, 10:14 PM Post #69
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 Wow...such denial and biased opinion. The Manga clearly points out Gohan has MORE Hidden Power than Goku...hell the look on Goku's face when Gohan Powers up proves he nearly filled his pants from Gohan's power, and Goku wouldn't have that kind of look on his face if Gohan was weaker than his SS3. And the fact that the Diaz even says SS3 is a Potential release, and it's being brushed off for a biased opinion...that's pathetic.

Gohan clearly has MORE than enough power to get the job done here, it's proven Gohan has MORE hidden power than Goku. Just comparing Goku from DB and Gohan on Namek proves Gohan has more potential than Goku. I mean really, Goku before the healing chamber couldn't fight second form Frieza, where a partial released hidden power Gohan got pissed and hurt him, I just don't get it when the evidence is presented, yet is brushed off with a biased opinion then tried to be backed up by a site that's nothing but a joke.

It would be like me making a claim about something a Manga line yet posting a link to Spectrum Nexus...it doesn't make sense.
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Optimus Banana Sep 13 2011, 10:20 PM Post #70
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Sasuke
Sep 13 2011, 07:02 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Sep 12 2011, 08:34 PM
Gohan's potential was shown to be higher than anybody's. He wins.
No, I disagree I feel the boys(Goten, Trunks,) discrediting G.T of course. But i agree SSJ 3 Goku would be what Ultimate Goku would be pretty much if you ask me.
Well if I recall the mystic/ultimate power up releases all your potential and then some. So ultimate Goku would prolly be be stronger than SSJ3 Goku but weaker than SSJ1 or 2 Gotenks Post RoSaT.
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+ Clearin Sep 13 2011, 10:42 PM Post #71
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Saberoph
Sep 13 2011, 10:14 PM
And the fact that the Diaz even says SS3 is a Potential release, and it's being brushed off for a biased opinion...that's pathetic.
Daiz says it's a potential release and SEG says it's a multiplier so it's not really being brushed off. It's just that you can't believe both of them. Akira Toriyama apparently had a hand in SEG while he only approved of Daiz 7.

He says about Daiz 7 (The one which says it's a potential release)
Quote:
 
This last daizenshuu, volume 7, is a grand DragonBall encyclopedia. Each time I think that the whole staff which makes these books has a really tough time of it, but this time seemed even more hellish. They truly did a great job.

I'm intensely forgetful, so despite being the author there are many things I don't understand anymore. It can be quite a pain, so I think it would have really been a life-saver if this grand encyclopedia had been around during serialization. It's a little frustrating.
Well at any rate, my sincerest thanks to the staff, and to all DragonBall fans.


While the SEG says
Quote:
 
Also according to the introduction of the Super Exciting Guide's training section, all the information in it is based on data that was supervised by Toriyama, though we have no idea how extensive this supervision was.


So I don't think the Daiz one should be taken as fact when a newer guide, supervised by Toriyama contradicts it :p Not that I'm saying SEG should be 100% followed, just that each person will follow a different one.

Everything else is more or less biased opinion on Goku's behalf though, Half-Breeds were stated by Vegeta to have amazing power and Gohan has always been played up to have the greatest potential (Until the kids)
Edited by Clearin, Sep 13 2011, 10:43 PM.
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Saberoph Sep 13 2011, 10:51 PM Post #72
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 Yet the Original Japanese is considered more cannon, yet the Diaz comes out before the SEG much like the Japanese Manga, and yet the Diaz has answered quite a bit of the questions, and has contradicted speculation/cleared it up too. I call BS on saying the SEG is more cannon than the Diaz, and technically AT did have a hand in the Diaz, since it's from HIS Manga.

So, by technically AT did have a hand in the Diaz, and it did come out before the SEG. :p
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lunar2 Sep 13 2011, 11:19 PM Post #73
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 it is fully possible to believe both the daiz and the s.e.g. simply say that ssj3 is a potential release, and that goku's ssj3 happens to be 4x his ssj2.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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* Yu Narukami Sep 13 2011, 11:25 PM Post #74
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Izanagi!
lunar2
Sep 13 2011, 11:19 PM
it is fully possible to believe both the daiz and the s.e.g. simply say that ssj3 is a potential release, and that goku's ssj3 happens to be 4x his ssj2.
True. The fairst explanation is that Goku's full potential = 4 x his SSJ2
Edited by Yu Narukami, Sep 13 2011, 11:25 PM.
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+ Pyrus Sep 13 2011, 11:29 PM Post #75
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 I think we can agree to that then. It doesn't change or nullify the fact that Gohan has more potential.
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