illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:17 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

Just read up on it, it's only as official as GT (also endorsed by him). The stuff you're quoting is proving my prevoius point about how a hybrid has the ability to reach deeper and faster into their own potential, not their overall total potential.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 10:42 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:17 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

Just read up on it, it's only as official as GT (also endorsed by him). The stuff you're quoting is proving my prevoius point about how a hybrid has the ability to reach deeper and faster into their own potential, not their overall total potential.

Show me where GT was endorsed by Toriyama, please. I know he said it was a good "side story".

And those quotes don't say that. Goku is saying that Gohan has more potential ability than anybody else. I don't know where you're getting the deeper and faster part. That's just speculation on your part.

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:51 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 10:42 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:17 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

Just read up on it, it's only as official as GT (also endorsed by him). The stuff you're quoting is proving my prevoius point about how a hybrid has the ability to reach deeper and faster into their own potential, not their overall total potential.

Show me where GT was endorsed by Toriyama, please. I know he said it was a good "side story".

And those quotes don't say that. Goku is saying that Gohan has more potential ability than anybody else. I don't know where you're getting the deeper and faster part. That's just speculation on your part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Toriyama

Here you go. Even more than endorsed; "invovled" in the creation.

And what I said wasn't speculation, read the anger part. It shows that he is able to tap into his potential by growing angry. Of course Goku could go ssj2 and deafet cell, but it would take years of training like it did(fact not assumption). It's proven above how much faster and easier hybrids have it.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 11:15 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:51 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 10:42 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 10:17 PM

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 09:50 PM

illstand1

Sep 12 2011, 09:38 PM

I never heard of that one, I get all my facts from the actual manga. But if that book was written by toriyama then you are indeed correct thay gohan would win.

It wasn't written by him, but it was endorsed/approved by him. There's also these quotes:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P6.5, P7.1-6
Context: “Don’t talk crazy, Goku! There’s no way he’d be able to fight! It’s true that he’s raised his abilities so much that he’s unrecognizable, but his opponent is Cell, who even you were no match for!”
Goku: “Piccolo, Gohan has more unbelievable power than we think. Think about it. He’s fought the same as everyone since he was a little squirt…When I was about his age, I wasn’t anything special.”
Kuririn: “B-but even if he’s become a Super Saiyan…Th-this is so quick…”
Goku: “In the Room of Spirit and Time, the dormant power sealed away deep, deep inside him began to be released. Why don’t we try asking him? How about it, Gohan? Did you think that dad and Cell’s fight just now was too incredible and you couldn’t keep up?”
Gohan: “N-no, I didn’t think so…But neither of you were fighting all-out, right…!?”
Goku: “I don’t know about Cell, but I was going all-out. So in other words, to you it felt like I was holding back?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Those quotes prove Gohan has the highest potential power, otherwise Goku would've put himself on the front lines instead.

Teen GohanZ

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8359528&t=8316037

I'm not really a fan of that theory. Gotenks is the fusion of 2 hybrids (2 which were shown to have as much, if not more potential than Gohan) yet his "full potential" was lower than Gohan's.
I just use a set multiplier.

As for the question. If it's the Buu saga for both characters I think Gohan would stomp, I don't think Goku has that much hidden potential, especially when it's heavily hinted half-breeds have more.

If it helps, Gohan was brought "beyond" his natural limits, whereas the kids/Gotenks were just brought to their limits.

Just read up on it, it's only as official as GT (also endorsed by him). The stuff you're quoting is proving my prevoius point about how a hybrid has the ability to reach deeper and faster into their own potential, not their overall total potential.

Show me where GT was endorsed by Toriyama, please. I know he said it was a good "side story".

And those quotes don't say that. Goku is saying that Gohan has more potential ability than anybody else. I don't know where you're getting the deeper and faster part. That's just speculation on your part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_Toriyama

Here you go. Even more than endorsed; "invovled" in the creation.

And what I said wasn't speculation, read the anger part. It shows that he is able to tap into his potential by growing angry. Of course Goku could go ssj2 and deafet cell, but it would take years of training like it did(fact not assumption). It's proven above how much faster and easier hybrids have it.

Toriyama has stated he considers GT a "side story", so it's not the same as the guidebooks. What I said still holds more ground than GT.

But fine, if you won't be swayed by those quotes, maybe these ones will.

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P2.5
Context: Gohan is impatient with the speed of Elder Kaioshin’s power-up
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmm…The fact that we aren’t done yet…Shows that your dormant abilities are extremely incredible.”

Chapter: 488 (DBZ 294), P4.9, P5.1-2
Context: after Gohan’s unintentional display of power
Goku: “…Am…amazin’…So he really wasn’t just some regular dirty old geezer?...*talking to Kaioshin* ‘Do-dormant ability’…That’s a person’s true power, that they have hidden all along…Right?”
Kaioshin: “Ye-yeah…I-I think so…”
Goku: “Mu-must be…Man, Go-Gohan…Just how the heck much power is he hiding?...”

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P7.2-3
Context: after Gohan transforms into the ‘mightiest of warriors’
Goku: “It re-really is incredible…It’s super-duper…! Absolutely unbelievable…Your appearance has hardly changed…And you ain’t even a Super Saiyan…Yet you’ve been taken to su-such an extreme…”
Elder Kaioshin: “Hmph, transforming isn’t good. That Super whatever-its-called is the wrong way [of doing things]…”

And what about Goku telling Gohan that if he gets mad, nobody can beat him? Clearly he's admitting Gohan is the strongest when he's mad, hence more potential power. Also, the fact that things come easier to hybrids just proves they have more potential.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 13 2011, 12:04 AM

So what you're basically saying is that Goku has more potential than Gohan throughout the entire series...?

lunar2

Sep 13 2011, 12:07 AM

let's look at this another way.

goku, in dragonball, had his potential fully released by the super god water. it MAYBE doubled his power. gohan, on namek, had his potential released by guru. the initial effect alone was a ~7x increase in power, and then his power kept rising at a steady pace after that.

there, that ends this whole debate. without guidebooks, without complicated theories. simple comparison of 1 childhood potential release to 1 childhood potential release. gohan's potential dwarfs goku's completely. it's like comparing the sun to the moon.

Kamikaze Pyro

Sep 12 2011, 08:34 PM

Gohan's potential was shown to be higher than anybody's. He wins.