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| Kaioken Question; Buu Saga | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 30 2011, 09:20 PM (1,534 Views) | |
| + Pyrus | Aug 31 2011, 02:46 AM Post #16 |
 
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They couldn't master it like Goku.
The second option isn't possible. The entire nature of Kaio-ken is multiplying power by the number desired. If Goku said "Kaio-ken x4" and his power multiplied by 2.5x, it wouldn't be Kaio-ken anymore. Edited by Pyrus, Aug 31 2011, 05:31 AM.
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| Balthazor | Aug 31 2011, 02:47 AM Post #17 |
I'm damn serious
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I think the KKs max was 20,the amplification is horrid on that thing,so anything more and Goku might actually explode in front of his friends lol. Not to mention the SSJ multipliers superiority and the no strain deal with the MSSJ. |
 Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"-  Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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| POOHEAD189 | Aug 31 2011, 05:29 AM Post #18 |
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Come on guys, the kaioken multiplier goes higher the stronger you get. I honestly think he could withstand a 70x Kaioken by the buu saga. |
| Tha gaol agam ort. <3 | |
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| lunar2 | Aug 31 2011, 05:39 AM Post #19 |
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that is not true at all. the kaioken multiplier goes up the more you practice it. it's just like any other skill. if you use it, you get better at it, but if you don't, you get worse. relearning a rusty skill may be relatively easy, but the kaioken doesn't allow for mistakes at all. mistakes are deadly. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| POOHEAD189 | Aug 31 2011, 06:09 AM Post #20 |
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The kaioken goes up the more you practice it? Goku never practiced to go kaioken x4 before he fight Vegeta, but he did it. It goes up by your power. |
| Tha gaol agam ort. <3 | |
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| lee | Aug 31 2011, 07:48 AM Post #21 |
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Well even at the start when it was 'fresh in his mind', he could only(or at least would only) take it up to around KK3-5. It's possible he just intentionally stopped using it because The SSJ power up provided sufficient strength without the massive physical strain. I'm not sure if it's something that needs constant practice to maintain perfection, but if it is Goku would definitely not pull off a KK20 whenever he pleases in the buu saga. |
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| lunar2 | Aug 31 2011, 01:17 PM Post #22 |
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and look what it did to goku's body. goku could only safely use the kkx2 at that time. the kkx3 was wearing him down fast, and the kkx4 tore him up bad. it makes absolutely no sense for a technique to become more effective simply because you become more powerful, if you don't practice the technique. in fact, all the evidence points in the opposite direction. if you don't practice a technique, it becomes less effective the more powerful you get. in db: the kamehameha quickly became useless after it was introduced. as people gained power, their skill with the kamehameha lagged, making a weak, easily blocked attack. it wasn't until goku underwent 3 years of hard training, and, among other things, developed an improved version of the kamehameha, that it became relevant as an attack again. in dbz: when cell fired a kamehameha for the first time, it was weak, because he only had saiyan saga goku's skill with the technique, which didn't matc with his android saga power. now, show one single piece of evidence that the kaioken's max multiplier is based on power. because common sense states otherwise. common sense states that the kaioken is a skill, like any other, and to get better at a skill, you have to practice it. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Aug 31 2011, 01:21 PM Post #23 |
 
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I really don't think that had anything to do with it, it seemed more like Piccolo was taunting Cell or something. If the power of Cell's Kamehameha was based solely on Goku's Saiyan Saga kamehameha then the one he used against Gohan should have been just as weak. |
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| lunar2 | Aug 31 2011, 01:25 PM Post #24 |
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no, because he'd had a couple weeks to practice it. do you think cell was just standing there for 10 days waiting on the cell games? |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Aug 31 2011, 02:15 PM Post #25 |
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Well what about Majin Buu? His first Kamehameha was enough to give Goku a shock. Also Roshi commented on how Tien's first kamehameha was strong. Yet neither of the 2 had time to practice it. |
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Aug 31 2011, 03:40 PM Post #26 |
 
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That super kaioken was a brief flash anyways, i dont know if goku can use it or not, but it seems like the idea, if he just wants to up his strength in ssj form, which he needed to do at the time as he wasnt full strength. However, i do know for sure that the kaioken is a technique that hurts you as it gives you more pwoer than you are acclimated to, that was goku issue in the first place, the stronger he gets the more he should sustain kaioken, however, it has no real multiplier as it only goes by how strong you already are and pushes you. So iwould say that he can do up to the times 20 if he wanted to. But couldnt go any higher than that, as he is already too strong. Broly is right, he would pop like a balloon going beyond his limits. |
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| lunar2 | Aug 31 2011, 06:06 PM Post #27 |
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both had learned it then and there, after seeing it done by a person with somewhat comparable power. with cell, his skill level was based on that of a fighter with a pl of 8,000, while his actual power was in the hundreds of millions, at least. he had no clue how to channel that kind of power into the kamehameha. tien saw yamcha, who was actually comparable to tien in power, use the kamehameha, and he already had experience with channeling his power through beams, because of the dodon ray. so he was able to do the kamehameha properly. same with buu. he saw goku do it, and gohan, and he's already skilled at manipulating ki at his level. cell isn't skilled for his level at this time. he's skilled all the way up to 120,000,000, but that's it. and even low progression rates put cell above 400,000,000, so his power is more than 3x as high as his skill |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| + Clearin | Aug 31 2011, 06:19 PM Post #28 |
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Does this apply to all Ki attacks? Because he was blowing up islands and managed to blast a hole in 16's head only because he got stronger and not because he had practiced how to use those attacks. |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Aug 31 2011, 06:48 PM Post #29 |
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in all honesty, I believe kk can go up as far as Goku calls it. In other words, the reason why Goku would not have done a kk*5 or 6 on Vegeta (Saiyan arc) was because he would not be able to handle one, not because he would not have been able to do it. I don't even recall AT showing that Goku was "perfecting KK" in particular during the whole trip to Namek sequence. Goku, imo, was comfortable at kk*10 because he was just much better than he was prior to Namek, strength-wise, in terms of power, etc. And this is just my opinion again, but I don't believe kk is nearly as dangerous and life-threaten to Goku as inferred. It was during Saiyan Saga, because Goku was weakducksauce, but by Frieza, Kaio didn't seem to really care that Goku was using KK*10 or 20. I don't get the fervent opposition against Goku being able to use KK (20+). It's definitely not beneath the realm of possibility. He doesn't because its obsolete. Super Saiyan bodies are made to take 50 * base power. Normal bodies aren't made to take over 1 base power. So why do kk *50, when I can go SSJ and just push myself extremely hard? Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Aug 31 2011, 06:48 PM.
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