Super Gohan

Sep 1 2011, 06:18 AM

Fulgore

Sep 1 2011, 02:40 AM

Refer to Videl getting the ***** kicked out of her, I'm pretty sure Gohan was still good and pissed off over that.

Does anyone else find it funny how people will refer to that scene as some justification for anger being a necessary trigger for Gohan using SSj2, and yet disregard the actual scene itself when he's without question demonstrating anger?

It just goes to show this argument will always come full circle. Leading back to people only perceiving a character as a SSj2 if they have lightning in their aura, and being how that is solely visual apprehension, when they attempt to deviate away from that sphere of influence to try and use logic with the story, it becomes incongruous. You simply cannot hold the position of Gohan only using SSj1 after the tournament and at the same time have it still make sense, it clashes, and is not readily compatible with the full information that is presented. Which is why some are content with relying on just the lightning factor without even bothering to have it fit with reason.

With Gohan's anger being a case in point: Those who side with the SSj1 position, oblige to interpret Goku's advice that Gohan should get angry and use all his power as being some indirect reference to using his SSj2 form, implicating anger as an essential requirement. Now this is where it gets discrepant... in the only time Gohan had exhibited bona fide anger earlier was during Videl's match, which induced a transformation. The only other time he transforms in the tournament was during his match with Kibito, which by then, his anger was no longer clearly apparent and he seemingly did so on his own accord. Between those two instances, which do you think fits your criteria the best; the one in the chapter named "Gohan Gets Angry!!" or the one in the chapter named "Stolen Energy"? If it wasn't already painstakingly obvious, you'd acknowledge his transformation in Videl's match as being exemplary of that. So going by your viewpoint, naturally Gohan should've been SSj2 in that instance too, however, this conflicts with the very root of belief that all SSj1 supporters would likely share aka "all SSj2 must have lightning in their aura", so you're forced to side with the stronger influence. Since you couldn't have it both ways in that ideal scene, you rationalize it by applying this same ideology into the later instance when anger was no longer apparent for his transformation, but this only dampers its credibility and even begs the question of if he could so easily have used pent-up rage from that previous event, why he would have such an issue of achieving that same state later on when against the actual ones behind manipulating Spopovich who caused Videl's suffering in the first place?

If you're trying to make sense out of Gohan only being a SSj1 without relying on lightning or hair as evidence, it won't work... as I sincerely doubt it was intended to.

PerfectCell

Sep 1 2011, 05:09 AM

Couldn't he just be something in between the two?like a SSJ2 burst form ish thing?

Saberoph

Sep 1 2011, 01:49 PM

There's no such thing as in between, that's only pure speculation. If there was an in between MSS and SS2, then AT would have said so, but he Never did.

Also, when someone is SS2 there's lightning, because at the Budokai he had it, so Gohan would have it later too is he was SS2, but Gohan clearly was not.

bizness86

Sep 1 2011, 06:39 AM

Although, in fairness, the visual aspect is very appealing, and also completely rational. I was on the other side of the fance at one point. Even if Dabra were SSJ2 tier, then it could be said that Gohan and Dabra were merely fighting at a lower-than-all-out level. Cell did it to both Goku and Gohan, and actually received a good deal of fatigue and damage from Goku in the process.

bizness86

Sep 1 2011, 06:39 AM

So with the rational argument, proof of SSJ2 Gohan can only hope to barely meet and match proof of SSJ Gohan by visual appearance.

Saberoph

Sep 1 2011, 01:21 PM

Then show us a time where Gohan went SS2 AFTER or WHILE something happened that pissed him off, for you're evidence to hold water you need to back it up with Proof, and we saw how that turned out last time..so please show us.

Also Kibit couldn't Fully restore all of Gohan's Ki, people do look at the the Hairstyle and Lightning (I know I have too), but perhaps the bigger picture is Gohan couldn't go SS2 due to his Ki not being fully restored. Hell, we don't know how much energy one needs to even go SS2, maybe that was the problem, also Goku's comment and how calm and cocky him and Vegeta were about Dabra doesn't make sense for Gohan to be SS2, it only makes sense for Gohan to be MSS (I know I'll be accused of looking at this one way, but I do also know who'll do it, and I'll just turn it back around anyway).

But with how cocky Goku and Vegeta acted about Dabra, makes you wonder if Gohan had even lacked the energy to go SS2. Not even saying that as fact, but I do think it's something to think about.

Also as for the whole Gohan smiling between going SS2 and Videl getting nearly beaten to death, the perfect explanation for that is Gohan kept it bottled up for Spopovich, but decided to feed off of that instead in-front of Kibit. People in DBZ do that all the time, hell that even shows that AT does take aspects from Real Life and put them in his Manga.

Super Gohan

Sep 1 2011, 10:15 PM

[..]

Super Gohan

 

Gohan was severely exhausted from a fight which most assuredly shouldn't have drained so much stamina in a short extent of time, had he been using this form that was conditioned to conserve energy and had even trained with Goten in, leading up to the tournament. It speaks for itself the amount of effort he exerted in the battle, as such an aftereffect shouldn't have come from anything less than his best.

Super Gohan

 

Dabura encountered his own difficulty in the fight because he found his attack was not able to inflict any apparent damage on Gohan. If the attack he landed cleanly on Gohan wasn't already at a level of his strongest, than it would be hard to excuse his actions of trying to urgently end the fight right after; first with stone spit, and then with the sword, and ultimately retreating from the bout to get Vegeta to do the job for him, instead of alternatively continuing to try racking up damage and wearing Gohan out as you proposed.

Saberoph

Sep 2 2011, 02:05 PM

I'll agree with it being a good response, but what I have a problem with is that the Manga points to Gohan being MSS, and it's the Anime that points to Gohan being SS2 and over the years it's been distorted and biased Anime fans have beaten into the head of others that the Manga says the same, but it really doesn't. Because Vegeta witnessed and sensed MSS Chibi Gohan and MSS Teen Gohan, so Vegeta comparing Teen Gohan to Chibi Gohan is really either way.