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- Gohan being SS2 or MSS...The showdown.
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| Gohan being SS2 or MSS...The showdown. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2011, 02:05 PM (7,624 Views) | |
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Sep 1 2011, 03:00 AM Post #61 |
Badabing!
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Lol, no need to get so offended. Anyway lets hear your response. But there is no evidence for him being angry in the Budokai transformation. |
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| + Pyrus | Sep 1 2011, 03:12 AM Post #62 |
 
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Maybe you didn't mean it, but the way you worded this could be perceived as very snobbish, so I'd suggest watching what you say. Cool? |
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| + Pelador | Sep 1 2011, 04:11 AM Post #63 |
Crazy Awesome Legend
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No evidence for him being angry in the kibito match? Look at his face. He's clearly agitated. |
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Sep 1 2011, 04:24 AM Post #64 |
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Badabing!
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 Once he gets the senzu he is happy. His only annoyance was that his cover was getting blown. Also it becomes apparent that he can't use his anger to fuel his power later on anyway; Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2 Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…” (Note: Back then is referring to the Cell fight). It's clear that his anger gives him a power boost, not access to SSJ2. The Daiz backs this up as well I'm sure. |
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| Balthazor | Sep 1 2011, 04:34 AM Post #65 |
I'm damn serious
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Well okay,FNFs posts are convincing (Sabers were too ) so the real question is why didn't he go SSJ2?was it because dabura wouldn't let Gohan any time to transform or? |
 Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"-  Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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Sep 1 2011, 05:02 AM Post #66 |
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Badabing!
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I'm honestly not fully convinced if Gohan was MSSJ or SSJ2 vs Dabura or Fat Buu. I made a little list of arguments for both sides on another thread and I don't see one obvious answer. |
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| Balthazor | Sep 1 2011, 05:09 AM Post #67 |
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I'm damn serious
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Couldn't he just be something in between the two?like a SSJ2 burst form ish thing? |
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Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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| Super Gohan | Sep 1 2011, 06:18 AM Post #68 |
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Does anyone else find it funny how people will refer to that scene as some justification for anger being a necessary trigger for Gohan using SSj2, and yet disregard the actual scene itself when he's without question demonstrating anger? It just goes to show this argument will always come full circle. Leading back to people only perceiving a character as a SSj2 if they have lightning in their aura, and being how that is solely visual apprehension, when they attempt to deviate away from that sphere of influence to try and use logic with the story, it becomes incongruous. You simply cannot hold the position of Gohan only using SSj1 after the tournament and at the same time have it still make sense, it clashes, and is not readily compatible with the full information that is presented. Which is why some are content with relying on just the lightning factor without even bothering to have it fit with reason. With Gohan's anger being a case in point: Those who side with the SSj1 position, oblige to interpret Goku's advice that Gohan should get angry and use all his power as being some indirect reference to using his SSj2 form, implicating anger as an essential requirement. Now this is where it gets discrepant... in the only time Gohan had exhibited bona fide anger earlier was during Videl's match, which induced a transformation. The only other time he transforms in the tournament was during his match with Kibito, which by then, his anger was no longer clearly apparent and he seemingly did so on his own accord. Between those two instances, which do you think fits your criteria the best; the one in the chapter named "Gohan Gets Angry!!" or the one in the chapter named "Stolen Energy"? If it wasn't already painstakingly obvious, you'd acknowledge his transformation in Videl's match as being exemplary of that. So going by your viewpoint, naturally Gohan should've been SSj2 in that instance too, however, this conflicts with the very root of belief that all SSj1 supporters would likely share aka "all SSj2 must have lightning in their aura", so you're forced to side with the stronger influence. Since you couldn't have it both ways in that ideal scene, you rationalize it by applying this same ideology into the later instance when anger was no longer apparent for his transformation, but this only dampers its credibility and even begs the question of if he could so easily have used pent-up rage from that previous event, why he would have such an issue of achieving that same state later on when against the actual ones behind manipulating Spopovich who caused Videl's suffering in the first place? If you're trying to make sense out of Gohan only being a SSj1 without relying on lightning or hair as evidence, it won't work... as I sincerely doubt it was intended to. |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 06:39 AM Post #69 |
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Hallelujah! He shall reign forever and ever! Although, in fairness, the visual aspect is very appealing, and also completely rational. I was on the other side of the fance at one point. Even if Dabra were SSJ2 tier, then it could be said that Gohan and Dabra were merely fighting at a lower-than-all-out level. Cell did it to both Goku and Gohan, and actually received a good deal of fatigue and damage from Goku in the process. But even so, you drove the nail pretty fuggin deep. Stake in the fuggin vamp! And jizzing sunlight... Honestly, I think it's pretty easy for people to cling to their arguments. It's like being a kid in the mall clinging on to mom's leg; it'd kinda suck if you'd look up and find out that it's your dad's leg, or worst, a stranger's. So with the rational argument, proof of SSJ2 Gohan can only hope to barely meet and match proof of SSJ Gohan by visual appearance. IMO, of course; I'm sure someone will call me "completely wrong," probably out of spite, or spit if they're Dabra, but I dodge because I don't wanna be stoned... Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Sep 1 2011, 06:42 AM.
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| Balthazor | Sep 1 2011, 06:42 AM Post #70 |
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I'm damn serious
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It wouldnt make sense for dabura to not be fighting at full power,he was supposed to damage Gohan for the sake of Buu's revival. |
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Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 06:45 AM Post #71 |
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Actually, he could have just worn down Gohan until Gohan was useless, and then do damage. Keep in mind that Dabra would have had to fight Vegeta, Goku, and Kaioshin afterwards. If Dabra expected them to all be as strong as Gohan, they Dabra would have known that he could become worn extremely quickly... [shrugs] That's an explanation. |
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| Balthazor | Sep 1 2011, 06:48 AM Post #72 |
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I'm damn serious
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If he knew all of them were around the same strength he wouldve tried to finish them all off as quickly as possible, or even toy with them , yet he couldn't do that because he was an MSSJ tier plain and simple. |
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Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 06:59 AM Post #73 |
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Nah. If they were all as strong as SSJ Gohan, and Dabra was (SEG) 100% Perfect Cell to Super Perfect Cell, then Dabra would do well to fight at their level and let themselves wear themselves down while he can converse energy. As a matter of fact, Cell thought this was good idea, why should Dabra not do that? He'd inflict on them eventually. And why is it "plain and simple", as if my reasons are completely random and not relevant in the least, man (or woman)? Open up your mind some; you don't even have to fully agree. |
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| Balthazor | Sep 1 2011, 07:09 AM Post #74 |
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I'm damn serious
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Because it would only make sense for Goku to only compare the cell he fought with to Dabura, Not only this but Dabura and Gohans fight gave buu almost 0 energy according to babidi,on the other hand Goku and Vegetas fight between two SSJ2's gave buu lots of energy. Dabura and gohans fight was pretty damn even,just like goku and vegetas.Not to mention Gohan said to kaioshin "Because they were fighting on another level" which implies GOhan was indeed not SSJ2. |
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Cell-"Now you will witness the terror of perfection!"- Best wrestler ever R.I.P Hopper June 6th 2002~August 18th 2011 | |
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 07:27 AM Post #75 |
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Goku also felt Cell's full power, and felt that Gohan was holding back during Cell's and Gohan's beam lock. I think Goku knows how strong Cell is at each instance. Referring to any of them makes sure. That's why people can use any one instance when trying to discredit the others. I won't say 0 energy, but Babidi did expect his strongest man, Dabra, to cause more damage, and if Dabra were simply trying to wear Gohan down before deal damage, then he wouldn't have to deal damage... Both Goku and Vegeta were fighting to dealing damage to each other, one of them wasn't any higher than the other. Dabra seemed less tired than Gohan near the end of the battle; this is nearly reminiscent to when Goku was fighting Cell and Cell didn't seem nearly as tired. But in that instance I wasn't necessarily arguing that Gohan was fighting at SSJ2. I was arguing that even if he were fighting as SSJ, Dabra wouldn't necessarily have to have been merely at SSJ Gohan's power. In all honesty, I support SSJ2 Gohan, but if AT, or even Daiz, were to make a recent statement that Gohan was only SSJ, and that Dabra was as strong as him, then it wouldn't be that hard to swallow. Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Sep 1 2011, 07:29 AM.
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