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- Gohan being SS2 or MSS...The showdown.
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| Gohan being SS2 or MSS...The showdown. | |||||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2011, 02:05 PM (7,626 Views) | |||||
| Sam | Aug 31 2011, 11:49 PM Post #31 | ||||
It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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No lightning. No Super Saiyan 2. No reason there wasn't lightning present at any point in the fight. Debate over. Gohan was MSSj. I'm sick of this. Why argue for SSj2 when all signs point to him NOT being SSj2? |
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |||||
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| + Clearin | Sep 1 2011, 12:09 AM Post #32 | ||||
 
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All? There's honestly quite a lot of signs for both sides. You just ignore the ones that point to SSj2 because you don't like them, while most people look at both sides. Stop being so close-minded u.u Possible explanations for the sparks: 1) Sparks are used for Akira to signify great power. Heck even SSj Vegetto had them, unless you want to argue he was actually a SSj2. Yet we knew at that point Gohan didn't have such great power so they were left out because he's portrayed as weak now 2) They lose the sparks when they get too worn out, something I think Vegeta and Goku proved after their fight. And we didn't know how long or hard Gohan had been fighting Dabura 3) He was MSSj. Choose one. Or for an out-of universe reason: 4) Sparks aren't even always consistent. SSj3 Gotenks has them, then he doesn't, then he does, then he doesn't, and this includes panels where he has an aura. That's my possible explanations for the sparks. Edited by Clearin, Sep 1 2011, 12:25 AM.
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| Saberoph | Sep 1 2011, 12:31 AM Post #33 | ||||
 
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But look who's talking...you dismiss the Physical evidence, when it's clear it outweighs all the other evidence. You want Gohan to be SS2, so you'll dismiss and excuse your way around the more solid evidence and try to say the inconsistent evidence holds more water, when it clearly does not. Show me one scan of Physical evidence that 100% Contradicts my argument, because my Physical evidence contradicts yours. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses. 
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| + Clearin | Sep 1 2011, 12:32 AM Post #34 | ||||
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I don't dismiss it, I even said one of the possible explanations was that he might be a MSSj but I also give other possible reasons.... I acknowledge the evidence for him being MSSj. I just think the SSj2 evidence seems more legit so I follow that. I don't say it's 100% right, it's just what I think. Edited by Clearin, Sep 1 2011, 12:32 AM.
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 12:38 AM Post #35 | ||||
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All the lightning happened before we see the fight  . Gohan was so b**chin' as a SSJ2 against Dabra while Mr. Satan beat 18. And then they showed the rest of the fight in the manga  .Everyone ignores everyone's evidence. Everyone bashes everyone for not submitting to their side. Everyone gets butt-hurt. Complete lack of lightning is the strongest argument, but it's often clung on to, to the point where everything else is ignored and disdained. If Goku says to Kaioshin that they've all fought Cell some time before they've met, and that Dabra shouldn't be an issue to any of them anymore, and yet people claim that Goku, no less anyone else, can't even beat Perfect Cell at full power, why even mention Cell? Goku even mentioning Cell's name should imply at least one of these (and note everyone's in earshot):
Otherwise, how does Goku even get away with that character statement. Vegeta was in earshot of that. Vegeta, imo, had the most experience with Cell's strength:
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Sep 1 2011, 12:39 AM.
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| Saberoph | Sep 1 2011, 12:43 AM Post #36 | ||||
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Notice I didn't really use lightning, I used the Hairstyle when there clearly is a difference between MSS and SS2 with Gohan, and Gohan's MSS Hairstyle matched Gohan's MSS in the Budokai, and that has YET to be proven wrong. Hell, the very argument to dismiss it just made it stronger. But again Teen Gohanz, to say Gohan was SS2 means you are dismissing the evidence, and the evidence proves Gohan was MSS not SS2. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Clearin | Sep 1 2011, 12:47 AM Post #37 | ||||
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The hair style doesn't even look consistent (As pointed out by Super Gohan on page 1) -.- sometimes his hair in the Dabura/Buu fight looks like MSSj, sometimes it looks like SSj2 and sometimes it looks like neither. Heck the SSj2 hair itself isn't 100% consistent in it's appearance. Not sure if the MSSJ one is, can't be bothered to check. I'm not dismissing any evidence, I'm saying it IS there and it IS possible he's a MSSj but I prefer the SSj2 evidence and I can find explanations for the MSSj evidence, even if it's just speculation just like you can do to SSJ2 evidence. Also you seem to be "dismissing" the SSj2 evidence just as much as I "dismiss" MSSj evidence. Edited by Clearin, Sep 1 2011, 12:48 AM.
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| Saberoph | Sep 1 2011, 12:53 AM Post #38 | ||||
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Not really, I realize the Diaz even says something and I even POINTED that out, so that disproves you saying I dismiss the evidence...no cigar here. But the MSS evidence is more consistent than the SS2 evidence, and the Manga is MORE cannon than the Diaz anyway, also I do even admit if we went by the Anime Gohan looks more like SS2, but the Anime is FAR more inconsistent, and I even pointed that out too, so really I haven't dismissed anything. Don't accuse me of anything when there are Several posts proving you wrong...I thought you knew better than that. Also, I just love it when people hide behind the like button instead of actually posting something useful. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| Kruegs Outlandish | Sep 1 2011, 12:54 AM Post #39 | ||||
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, I wish I could like his posts multiple times. Aside from that, it seems like every other similar thread gets ignored completely. Somebody's getting mad... Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Sep 1 2011, 12:55 AM.
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| + Clearin | Sep 1 2011, 12:57 AM Post #40 | ||||
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Urgh I said "Dismiss" in quotes for a reason. I said I wasn't dismissing any evidence and then said you dismiss as much as me. That means you're not dismissing anything...and neither am I. We both acknowledge both sides and find explanations for both sides. I don't even use that Diaz entry as soild evidence, especially since it's contradicted in another entry, I might use it as side evidence but never as a way of proving anything. Don't accuse you of not dismissing anything? Okay so I guess you're admitting you are dismissing stuff now? Also I haven't been "Proven" wrong -_- you've given explanations for MSSj and I gave them for SSj2, you give possible explanations against SSj2 evidence being and I give them against the MSSj evidence. You're as "wrong" as me (And just to clarify this time, that means neither of us is wrong...although I doubt you'll say there's a chance you're not right...) Edited by Clearin, Sep 1 2011, 12:58 AM.
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Sep 1 2011, 12:59 AM Post #41 | ||||
 
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I like how that was worded Perfect cell, the way they all speak is a definite and are hardly ever proved wrong.Most of the time its a game for these guys and easier to twist or altogether dismiss what the characters say to prove a point. Its annoying. Vegeta himself was even talking about gohan at that level and was pretty clear, if anything gohan was down to gell game gokus level, because gohan was stronger than goku in base and mssj. So it would make sense to compare gohan with himself and be accurate about what you are saying. Vegeta is saying that gohan was around gokus level and was disgusted because he was supposed to be training. He had no excuse for goku who himself hadnt been watching gohan either, if anything gohans loss of strength was VEGETAS SHAME!! but goku didnt even realize it. The saiyans think just like klingons, seriously. Cell was the template for gokus comparison, but what if it just meant cell in general? we all know goku didnt work out to his fullest to gain more potential NOR did he even fight cell at full strength except for the IT kamehameha. Gohan was superior to him in BOTH forms also(just to reiterate) so if gohan was stronger as a kid in general as vegeta said then that means he is sown to cell game gokus level. If he was down to vegetas it would be downright pathetic. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Sep 1 2011, 01:03 AM.
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| Saberoph | Sep 1 2011, 01:04 AM Post #42 | ||||
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Oh no, you haven't seen me mad, if you wanna see me mad go to the users page FPSSJGohan and read the posts between us. He pissed me off enough that I reported him over anything and he got suspended...twice. On this forum I can be a persons friend or worst enemy, and how things were between us is proof of that. Then you don't know me at all. Hell, I have even admitted that there's evidence helping the SS2 argument. And yes I realize you're not dismissing it really, I'm just in A-hole mode tonight...my bad, that tends to happen when I work retail. I just don't see the point in following a belief when the opposite side's evidence is stronger, I mean even Super Gohan's evidence had sparks in it, and that already makes Gohan SS2 no matter what. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| + Pyrus | Sep 1 2011, 01:20 AM Post #43 | ||||
 
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The lightning isn't inconsistent with Gotenks. He has them at all times except for about 6 panels (about 4-5 of those are when something would obstruct the lightning, I think), in which case the panel next to it presents him with lightning, so it's not like it's an entire page or battle, such as with Gohan. Just putting my two dollars in to this comment. |
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| + Clearin | Sep 1 2011, 01:25 AM Post #44 | ||||
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Trust me, there's waaaaay more than 6 lol. |
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| + Pelador | Sep 1 2011, 01:42 AM Post #45 | ||||
Crazy Awesome Legend
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I think that when Goku was asking Gohan why he couldn't be like he was before, Goku is referring to the SSj2 form. After all, I don't think it was actually given it's proper name until Goku used it against Buu. So in my opinion Gohan was only MSSJ1. I also don't think he really took Dabura seriously enough to go SSJ2 straight away. Which also implies that Dabura is not really as strong as Cell. At least not full power Cell. Now you cold argue that Gohan said he couldn't be that way anymore, even though he did it at the tournament. Well I think he was still really angry at that point. Which is why he felt the need to show off to Kibito even though he could have easily beat him at SSJ1. He was hot headed and couldn't think straight. However during the Dabura thing, he was completely at ease. Seems he could only do it when he was pissed off. Now about Dabura's power. Nobody took him seriously. If Gohan had to go SSJ2 to fight evenly with him, I don't think anyone there would have been as cocky as they were. Gohan was arguably weaker. But how much power can one really lose over 7 years? Also take into consideration that Gohan did light training with Goten, which must have upped his power slightly. Though nothing major of course. Gohan was more sloppy than physically weaker. During the short match, I don't think Dabura landed many hits at all, not for want of trying. Goku and Vegeta's SSJ2 forms could not have been hugely greater than Gohan's. Vegeta was barely above SSJ2 Gohan at the Cell games and Goku was at most 10% above this. Which the Majin boost catered for. So Gohan was probably 10% less than Vegeta without the Majin. If that. If they had had a huge advantage over him, they would have stated so. However, they merely alluded to him being out of shape and sloppy. That is why Dabura can't be SSJ 2 tier. Because they knew they could beat him easily. And you don't beat SSJ2 tier characters easily. Even one's as low powered as Gohan. |
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