Life after Death

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Life after Death
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 23 2011, 03:08 PM (1,699 Views)
Naruto-Gogeta	Aug 23 2011, 03:08 PM Post #1
Omega Shenron Posts: 2,890 Group: Member Member #5,370 Joined: October 30, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	I've come to the conclusion after reading something very eye-opening, that there is only conclusive evidence that we will be reborn again. 2 + 2 = 4: It does not equal anything else. The truth is, there is only one truth. Believing 2 + 2 = 5 or 6 or anything else does not make it true. There are an infinite amount of wrong answers, but only one true answer. Common denominator: The truth is the only thing that can unite all human beings. It is what we all have in common, and that will never change. There is only one sky for all of us. Everyone eats and breathes and is born and dies etc. The ultimate truth is universal truth; it is the same for everyone, everywhere. It always has been and always will be. We can now know the truth about life and death. Reason: We can now use our ability to reason, deductive logic, and extrapolation of the known evidence to know and understand things the evidence does not reveal directly, such as life after death. We have progressed enough to know and understand the fundamental truth of life. It will transform us and our world. You are reading this post, so you are conscious (alive). This means that you have always been conscious and always will be, because it is not possible for you to be aware of being dead (unconscious). You cannot be aware of not being aware; you cannot be conscious of being unconscious. You can be less conscious (sleep/coma), but not completely unconscious, because time would stand still for you. A billion years could pass, and you would not know it. You are immortal, because it is impossible for you not to be. You cannot be aware of any gaps in life; it is continuous and never-ending from your own point of view. Have you ever experienced anything other than life? You haven’t, because you cannot experience anything else; anything you experience is life. Energy cannot be created or destroyed and consciousness cannot be created or destroyed for the same reason. It just changes form. You cannot make nothing out of something, and if you are conscious of life now, you are something. The logic above reveals that we are not our bodies. We know our bodies die, and know consciousness cannot, thus our consciousness (what we are) cannot be our bodies. You will die physically, but you will be born again; being born happens, or you would not be here now. You were born into this life. It is what we know happens for certain. There is no evidence anything else happens. Why would we think anything else happens or even can happen? People are playing make believe. If we were born once, it will happen again. All the evidence says that life goes in a cycle. Things in nature repeat over and over. This was taken from the thing I read. Thoughts? EDIT: Here's the link. Please, read all of it. http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/ Edited by Naruto-Gogeta, Aug 23 2011, 03:11 PM.
	The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie. "We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..." Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!! JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/


SirParagon	Aug 23 2011, 03:31 PM Post #2
Sparking! Posts: 808 Group: Duplicate Member #6,577 Joined: August 7, 2011 Favourite Anime Baccano, Mushi-shi, Excel Saga, NHK What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Berserk	This sounds a lot like the spiritual stuff I was obsessed with a few years back, all of it makes the dire assumption that consciousness is somehow immaterial; it isn't possible to justify consciousness as being separate from the body with our current understanding of the universe (like saying that it is possible for a human to breathe without lungs, the brain generates consciousness). Memory provides us with an identity, memory is physical, what is consciousness without memory? How would the experience by any different from not existing at all? If we were born again, how exactly would that work? How could you even be aware of it? Why would the universe even operate like that? These involve very bold assumptions indeed. Edited by SirParagon, Aug 23 2011, 03:40 PM.
	New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism?


* Yu Narukami	Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM Post #3
Izanagi! Posts: 12,330 Group: Retired Staff Member #6,446 Joined: July 3, 2011 Gender Not Specified Country None	We are not immortal. We die. Even if our ''spirits'' live on and are reborn, that wouldn't be us. That spirit would form a new consciousness and the old one, you, would be erased. The brain can't handle to seperate personalities at once. Then again, maybe they can and some mental disorders are old personalities making themselves known. Personally? I don't think there is any kind of life after death. People are scared of death and like to think that they'll live on after death, thus the invention of these reincarnation/rebirth theories. I can't fathom not existing but to me, the only logical explanation is that there's nothing after death.



SirParagon	Aug 23 2011, 03:53 PM Post #4
Sparking! Posts: 808 Group: Duplicate Member #6,577 Joined: August 7, 2011 Favourite Anime Baccano, Mushi-shi, Excel Saga, NHK What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Berserk	Mirai Trunks Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM We are not immortal. We die. Even if our ''spirits'' live on and are reborn, that wouldn't be us. That spirit would form a new consciousness and the old one, you, would be erased. The brain can't handle to seperate personalities at once. Then again, maybe they can and some mental disorders are old personalities making themselves known. Personally? I don't think there is any kind of life after death. People are scared of death and like to think that they'll live on after death, thus the invention of these reincarnation/rebirth theories. I can't fathom not existing but to me, the only logical explanation is that there's nothing after death. It was suggested somewhere that most people naturally possess multiple egos, well everyone does, everyone has a sub-conscious which is ~7000x more powerful than our waking mind. I mean aside from sub-conscious. My direct thoughts... If there does exist an immaterial aspect to life, there's no way I can logically see that working if everyone's 'spirit' is a separate entity, but it could perhaps work if all life stems from a single source, a universal consciousness if you will (with branches perpetually dying and being created). Although there's no rational reason for me to believe such a thing is true. Edited by SirParagon, Aug 23 2011, 03:55 PM.
	New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism?


Rockman	Aug 23 2011, 03:56 PM Post #5
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	It's interesting that you make allegorical representations to compare one thing to another. But it doesn't always work out that the comparisons can be made. For instance 2+2=4, can compare that all math holds to logic. However anything divisible by zero doesn't hold to the same logic unless you're speaking about it in fourth dimensional terms. (i.e. as segmented time). But you don't have to segment 2+2=4 into 4th dimension because it holds true outside that realm. Likewise with an allegorical comparison to other logic. It's just too hard to tell. But you make some very clear assertions about logic.
	JAke is a copyright of Spazo and Pickle Flavored Fudge Pops inc.


Naruto-Gogeta	Aug 23 2011, 04:21 PM Post #6
Omega Shenron Posts: 2,890 Group: Member Member #5,370 Joined: October 30, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Mirai Trunks Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM We are not immortal. We die. Even if our ''spirits'' live on and are reborn, that wouldn't be us. That spirit would form a new consciousness and the old one, you, would be erased. The brain can't handle to seperate personalities at once. Then again, maybe they can and some mental disorders are old personalities making themselves known. Personally? I don't think there is any kind of life after death. People are scared of death and like to think that they'll live on after death, thus the invention of these reincarnation/rebirth theories. I can't fathom not existing but to me, the only logical explanation is that there's nothing after death. By immortal, it doesn't mean that we live forever, it's that we experience immortality because we can't be aware of not being aware. We can't be aware of being dead, or asleep, or in a coma, so all we humans experience is a non-stop string of life. I'm not afraid of death. SirParagon If we were born again, how exactly would that work? How could you even be aware of it? Why would the universe even operate like that? These involve very bold assumptions indeed. What do you mean why would the universe even operate like that? Nature has shown time and time again to work in a cycle. It's exactly how the universe operates. Do you have any evidence to prove this text wrong? Besides saying that couldn't be true, therefore justifying your own opinion without actual evidence. Edited by Naruto-Gogeta, Aug 23 2011, 04:25 PM.
	The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie. "We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..." Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!! JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/


SirParagon	Aug 23 2011, 04:40 PM Post #7
Sparking! Posts: 808 Group: Duplicate Member #6,577 Joined: August 7, 2011 Favourite Anime Baccano, Mushi-shi, Excel Saga, NHK What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Berserk	Naruto-Gogeta Aug 23 2011, 04:21 PM Mirai Trunks Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM We are not immortal. We die. Even if our ''spirits'' live on and are reborn, that wouldn't be us. That spirit would form a new consciousness and the old one, you, would be erased. The brain can't handle to seperate personalities at once. Then again, maybe they can and some mental disorders are old personalities making themselves known. Personally? I don't think there is any kind of life after death. People are scared of death and like to think that they'll live on after death, thus the invention of these reincarnation/rebirth theories. I can't fathom not existing but to me, the only logical explanation is that there's nothing after death. By immortal, it doesn't mean that we live forever, it's that we experience immortality because we can't be aware of not being aware. We can't be aware of being dead, or asleep, or in a coma, so all we humans experience is a non-stop string of life. I'm not afraid of death. SirParagon If we were born again, how exactly would that work? How could you even be aware of it? Why would the universe even operate like that? These involve very bold assumptions indeed. What do you mean why would the universe even operate like that? Nature has shown time and time again to work in a cycle. It's exactly how the universe operates. Do you have any evidence to prove this text wrong? Besides saying that couldn't be true, therefore justifying your own opinion without actual evidence. It isn't so much about proving this wrong (exactly the same bogus argument religious types tend to use against atheists; "Why don't you prove god doesn't exist?" A wrongful attempt to shift the burden of proof). It's jumping the gun, starting this whole logical argument with no solid factual basis. One must first prove consciousness is immaterial before formulating theories and logic about why/how we possess an immortal soul, that's all I'm saying. Edited by SirParagon, Aug 23 2011, 04:51 PM.
	New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism?


Naruto-Gogeta	Aug 23 2011, 04:52 PM Post #8
Omega Shenron Posts: 2,890 Group: Member Member #5,370 Joined: October 30, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	SirParagon Aug 23 2011, 04:40 PM Naruto-Gogeta Aug 23 2011, 04:21 PM Mirai Trunks Aug 23 2011, 03:44 PM We are not immortal. We die. Even if our ''spirits'' live on and are reborn, that wouldn't be us. That spirit would form a new consciousness and the old one, you, would be erased. The brain can't handle to seperate personalities at once. Then again, maybe they can and some mental disorders are old personalities making themselves known. Personally? I don't think there is any kind of life after death. People are scared of death and like to think that they'll live on after death, thus the invention of these reincarnation/rebirth theories. I can't fathom not existing but to me, the only logical explanation is that there's nothing after death. By immortal, it doesn't mean that we live forever, it's that we experience immortality because we can't be aware of not being aware. We can't be aware of being dead, or asleep, or in a coma, so all we humans experience is a non-stop string of life. I'm not afraid of death. SirParagon If we were born again, how exactly would that work? How could you even be aware of it? Why would the universe even operate like that? These involve very bold assumptions indeed. What do you mean why would the universe even operate like that? Nature has shown time and time again to work in a cycle. It's exactly how the universe operates. Do you have any evidence to prove this text wrong? Besides saying that couldn't be true, therefore justifying your own opinion without actual evidence. It isn't so much about proving this wrong (exactly the same bogus argument religious types tend to use against atheists; "Why don't you prove god doesn't exist?" A wrongful attempt to shift the burden of proof). It's jumping the gun, starting this whole logical argument with no solid factual basis. One must first prove consciousness is immaterial before formulating theories and logic about why/how we possess an immortal soul, that's all I'm saying. Hm. That's a tough argument. For the moment, I can't form a reply on that because I don't have enough information, but I'll try to reply later on today. I suppose you could prove. But, if we are spiritual then consciousness must also be spiritual too. Everything in the universe also has a balancing force. So, if life is spiritual (which would relate to consciousness) then death (unconsciousness) is non-spiritual. That argument is a bit weak, but it's all I have at the moment.
	The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie. "We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..." Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!! JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/


+ Steve	Aug 23 2011, 07:54 PM Post #9
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	"The human soul weighs 1/3,000th of an ounce! That’s the astonishing claim of East German researchers who recently weighed more than 200 terminally ill patients just before, and immediately after, their deaths. In each case the weight loss was exactly the same–1/3,000th of an ounce. “The inescapable conclusion is that we have now confirmed the existence of the human soul and determined its weight,” Dr. Becker Mertens of Dresden said in a letter printed in the German science journal Horizon. “The challenge before us now is to figure out exactly what the soul is composed of”, he continued. “We are inclined to believe that it is a form of energy. “But our attempts to identify this energy have been unsuccessful to date.” The expert’s report, co-authored by physicist Elke Fisher, got mixed review from top scientists around the world. Gerard Voisart, the leading French pathologist, was especially critical, saying that the weight difference between the living and the dead could be accounted for by air leaving the lungs. But Drs. Fisher and Mertens said they took that into account in making their calculations. They further stated that the device they used to weigh the soul has a margin of error of less than 1/100,000th of an ounce." Source: http://www.noeticsciences.co.uk/weighting-the-human-soul/ I think there could be something there something like 10% of the human genome is unmapped and some people believe that to be the soul It's hard to comprehend dying and being somebody else without being able to remember anything about who you were, it seems strange that this is how it would be So maybe at the moment of death our soul/spirit/consciousness is released and that is who we are never to take form again but never to completely be gone from reality Could explain many things maybe that's what ghosts are, I find it unlikely that every mention or sighting of ghosts to be fake most yes but some must have really been seen Not that any of that is definitely the case but it makes sense in my opinion and of course nobody knows the truth
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


Naruto-Gogeta	Aug 23 2011, 09:08 PM Post #10
Omega Shenron Posts: 2,890 Group: Member Member #5,370 Joined: October 30, 2010 Favourite Anime Dragon Ball What Browser do you use? Internet Explorer Favourite Manga Dragon Ball Z	Steve Aug 23 2011, 07:54 PM "The human soul weighs 1/3,000th of an ounce! That’s the astonishing claim of East German researchers who recently weighed more than 200 terminally ill patients just before, and immediately after, their deaths. In each case the weight loss was exactly the same–1/3,000th of an ounce. “The inescapable conclusion is that we have now confirmed the existence of the human soul and determined its weight,” Dr. Becker Mertens of Dresden said in a letter printed in the German science journal Horizon. “The challenge before us now is to figure out exactly what the soul is composed of”, he continued. “We are inclined to believe that it is a form of energy. “But our attempts to identify this energy have been unsuccessful to date.” The expert’s report, co-authored by physicist Elke Fisher, got mixed review from top scientists around the world. Gerard Voisart, the leading French pathologist, was especially critical, saying that the weight difference between the living and the dead could be accounted for by air leaving the lungs. But Drs. Fisher and Mertens said they took that into account in making their calculations. They further stated that the device they used to weigh the soul has a margin of error of less than 1/100,000th of an ounce." Source: http://www.noeticsciences.co.uk/weighting-the-human-soul/ I think there could be something there something like 10% of the human genome is unmapped and some people believe that to be the soul It's hard to comprehend dying and being somebody else without being able to remember anything about who you were, it seems strange that this is how it would be So maybe at the moment of death our soul/spirit/consciousness is released and that is who we are never to take form again but never to completely be gone from reality Could explain many things maybe that's what ghosts are, I find it unlikely that every mention or sighting of ghosts to be fake most yes but some must have really been seen Not that any of that is definitely the case but it makes sense in my opinion and of course nobody knows the truth Interesting read. But that could be because of other reasons such as the breath leaving the lungs.
	The blonde girl with the black lips turned to Valkyrie. "We know," she said. "We've seen the future. We know you're going to kill the world..." Release it Gohan! Release everything! Remember all the pain he's caused... The people he's hurt... NOW MAKE THAT YOUR POWER!!!! JOIN MY BOXING FORUM NOW! http://s4.zetaboards.com/Boxing_Forum/index/


+ Steve	Aug 23 2011, 09:33 PM Post #11
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	Nah they most likely factor that in to the math I think it would add a bit more weight than that aswel the amount that's lost is probably an unexplainable amount not the only amount lost
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


SirParagon	Aug 23 2011, 11:49 PM Post #12
Sparking! Posts: 808 Group: Duplicate Member #6,577 Joined: August 7, 2011 Favourite Anime Baccano, Mushi-shi, Excel Saga, NHK What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Berserk	That isn't exactly a credible source, just saying. If a soul existed it wouldn't weigh anything just as you cannot attribute a weight to human thought. Only physical matter can have weight.
	New Account: Spirit Metaphor Voluntarism?


Jonnoley	Aug 24 2011, 12:04 AM Post #13
Posts: 176 Group: Member Member #3,988 Joined: February 16, 2009	Yeah, I have to say, it seems like quite an untrustworthy source as SirParagon said. For instance, assuming the human soul is something with some physical mass, how does it escape the body? Why isn't it visible? I'm guessing there must just be an error somewhere in the experiment, simply because... Well, there's not a lot of other explanations. Occam's Razor, the least complex answer is most likely correct. But more on topic than... Being off topic, I'd have to say that I don't really agree with your concepts here. Conciousness doesn't really seem analogous to energy to me. And even if you're correct, like a few people have said, you wouldn't be "you." You wouldn't have your memories or personality. Because they're stored in your physical memory. It would just be someone else, and to be perfectly honest, I'd rather think my life ends when I die, I don't just get wiped and rewritten like a cheap CD.



+ Steve	Aug 24 2011, 12:42 AM Post #14
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season. Posts: 19,471 Group: Legend Member #5,710 Joined: February 7, 2011 Gender Male Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime Hunter x Hunter(2011) What Browser do you use? Mozilla Firefox Favourite Manga Berserk all day erry day	I'm not saying those guys are correct, just the general idea is plausible. It could be part of the electrical system in your brain it would make sense it weighing something I mean has anybody weighed electricity? It's too fast to get a reading isn't it your soul could just be part of the current going through your brain until you are brainded That could explain things like people literally losing their minds etc maybe they had a faulty system and the signals couldn't stay within the brain I don't know, ask me again when I'm a neuropsychologist. It does make a kind of sense though electrical signals and whatnot are everywhere Sounds crazy But one day somebody will know the truth anyway
	Definitely not a succubus, fear not


DanielSan	Aug 24 2011, 02:21 AM Post #15
Posts: 1,536 Group: Donator Member #5,730 Joined: February 14, 2011	In my opinion life is a beautiful thing. As a kid or under 5 since I and quite a few people still consider 13 years old still pretty young. When I was 4 I didn't think anything of life. I thought I was existed and that everything will stay the same. I didn't even know what aging was until later when I was 4 and a half. I thought people were born the way they were. I thought my grandma was always old, and my mother was always normal, and that I was always small. Around the time I was 5 I started to understand the world around me. I started to understand aging, life, science. I started to learn about death. Then after that I started to learn about the concept of life and god. Now I don't believe in god anymore I am agnostic these days. Around the time I was 7 or 8 I learn about birth and how I was made. I didn't think too much about until years later. Now when I was 12 I got started to think more about our universe. Before then I never thought about it really, but that year I saw just how small the earth was. The Sun is huge compared to the earth. A million times bigger. But even the sun is small compared to even other stars. VY Canis Majoris is billions of times bigger than even the sun. If we replace the sun with VY Canis Majoris then the star would reach past Jupiter or even Saturn I think. Also there are billions of stars in each galaxy and about billions of galaxies. Also our sun is just a small star. If you think about it the earth doesn't even make a 0.00001 percent of the space in our universe. I started to become an agnostic then the more and more science I learn about the universe and the planet. The dinosaurs, then old human bones, the size of the universe, the chances of life on other planets. Now let's get to the main part of the thing. I believe that life after death is hard to figure out. There has been near death stories but most of them have to do with only their own religion. In Canada, the United States, or the United Kingdom most of them are Christians and the experiences have to do with them, while in Islamic countries it has to do with them. The closest thing I somewhat believe in an afterlife is recarnation. Other than that I believe we won't able to exist after life if you know what I mean.



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