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In Buu saga is this correct? Goku = Vegeta?; well I think they were equal.
Topic Started: Jul 26 2011, 10:31 PM (2,270 Views)
+ Clearin
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shonen
Jul 26 2011, 11:15 PM
Also would Vegeta and Goku be considered equal in base, or would vegeta have the edge due to gravity training ?
If they are equal in 1 form they are equal in all forms
If one was higher than the other in 1 form they'd be higher in all forms.
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* Yu Narukami
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Goku > Vegeta

It's logical to assume that Vegeta lost the power that the Majin seal granted him when he died. Also, he couldn't train whilst dead due to him not having a body so don't you think perhaps he could've gotten at least a tiny bit weaker?

Vegeta stated himself that before the Majin seal, Goku completely outclassed him and at that time Vegeta didn't even know about the SSJ3 transformation.

SSJ2 Goku > SSJ2 Vegeta
Therefore
Base Goku > Base Vegeta
Edited by Yu Narukami, Jul 26 2011, 11:19 PM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Nothing ever states that he loses the power, how often does that happen in DBZ? Never
And I highly doubt he would have lasted as long as he did against Kid Buu as an SSJ unless his SSJ is as powerful as SSJ2 which doesn't make sense
So Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Vegeta imo

Yeah but he wouldn't do that in a fight unless he was totally outmatched
Their fight would just be the same as the Majin fight and the longer it goes on the less likely Goku would be able to go SSJ3 anyway
It's basic pure blood saiyan nature

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Steve
Jul 26 2011, 11:25 PM
Nothing ever states that he loses the power, how often does that happen in DBZ? Never

The fact he loses the Majin seal kinda helps prove it, and it never happens any other time in DBZ becuase Vegeta is the only character in DBZ to have a majin seal, die, then come back to life.

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And I highly doubt he would have lasted as long as he did against Kid Buu as an SSJ unless his SSJ is as powerful as SSJ2 which doesn't make sense
So Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Vegeta imo

Vegeta was a SSj2 against Kid Buu
Edited by Clearin, Jul 26 2011, 11:29 PM.
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* Yu Narukami
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Interesting. Maybe Babadi unlocks a person's power so they can access it and maybe Vegeta retained that power afterwards.

In regards to the topic, it depends. If you're talking Pre-Majin Vegeta, Goku > Vegeta

If you're talking Post Majin Vegeta, Goku >= Vegeta imo
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Nothing states he lost the power and there's nothing to show he did either. Babidi unlocked his latent power. When has latent power ever gone back into hiding, hm?

Chapter: 456 (DBZ 262), P4.3
Context: as Babidi takes control of Vegeta
Babidi: “Alright! That’s it! He’s already mine, uhihihi…! While I’m at it, I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!”

Babidi possessed Vegeta, and then unlocked his hidden power. It was a two-part process, meaning Vegeta having the power doesn't rely on Babidi's possession or Babidi at all. Babidi did that of his own accord; it didn't come with the Majin seal automatically.
Mirai Trunks
 
It's logical to assume that Vegeta lost the power that the Majin seal granted him when he died. Also, he couldn't train whilst dead due to him not having a body so don't you think perhaps he could've gotten at least a tiny bit weaker?

No? If he's got no body then he's got no way to become weaker.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 26 2011, 11:43 PM.
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Kamikaze Pyro
Jul 26 2011, 11:41 PM
Nothing states he lost the power and there's nothing to show he did either. Babidi unlocked his latent power. When has latent power ever gone back into hiding, hm?

Chapter: 456 (DBZ 262), P4.3
Context: as Babidi takes control of Vegeta
Babidi: “Alright! That’s it! He’s already mine, uhihihi…! While I’m at it, I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!”

Babidi possessed Vegeta, and then unlocked his hidden power. It was a two-part process, meaning Vegeta having the power doesn't rely on Babidi's possession or Babidi at all. Babidi did that of his own accord; it didn't come with the Majin seal automatically.
Mirai Trunks
 
It's logical to assume that Vegeta lost the power that the Majin seal granted him when he died. Also, he couldn't train whilst dead due to him not having a body so don't you think perhaps he could've gotten at least a tiny bit weaker?

No? If he's got no body then he's got no way to become weaker.
Well he didn't say he kept the power either so that argument can work for both sides :|

Anyway Babidi says he took Vegeta's power BEYOND his limits, meaning he literally made Vegeta stronger than himself, as he did with Spopovich most likely, so there is some evidence to suggest that when he died and lost the Majin seal he also lost any extra power Babidi gave him.

I guess it's a matter of opinion, there's no way it can be proved right or wrong without Akira Toriyama saying so himself.

Also the powerup came AS he was taking control of Vegeta, not after, it says so in the context :p
Edited by Clearin, Jul 26 2011, 11:49 PM.
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Teen GohanZ
Jul 26 2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:
 
The fact he loses the Majin seal kinda helps prove it, and it never happens any other time in DBZ becuase Vegeta is the only character in DBZ to have a majin seal, die, then come back to life.

It doesn't prove it at all he just lost the seal so what? It's just a mark of being under the control of Babidi(or Bibidi)
But nobody just loses a massive power increase like that the only time that happens is with Gohan but that's due to 7 years of slacking off

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Vegeta was a SSj2 against Kid Buu

And it doesn't seem like he was capable of SSJ2 before Babidi released his power, the fact that he retains SSJ2 must mean he retains the power he got also
He loses the M because his master dies

Yeah exactly I agree with Kamikaze


Buu doesn't have a Majin seal(there's an M on his belt yeah but that's just a mark on clothing doubt it's a seal) meaning he wasn't under control of either wizard
Yet he retains his power does he not? He doesn't just die because his creator does
If the power stays with Buu there's no reason why it wouldn't with Vegeta
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Quote:
 
Well he didn't say he kept the power either so that argument can work for both sides :|

I s'pose.
Quote:
 
Anyway Babidi says he took Vegeta's power BEYOND his limits, meaning he literally made Vegeta stronger than himself, as he did with Spopovich most likely, so there is some evidence to suggest that when he died and lost the Majin seal he also lost any extra power Babidi gave him.

But that power didn't come from Babidi possessing him. That came from Babidi just doing it. Losing Babidi's possession would have no affect on him having the power. They two happened at the same time, but not because of each other.
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I guess it's a matter of opinion, there's no way it can be proved right or wrong without Akira Toriyama saying so himself.

Also the powerup came AS he was taking control of Vegeta, not after, it says so in the context :p

Babidi says he's already got control of Vegeta in the quote. The context part was a generalization of the entire process.

Steve
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8325553&t=8305872

And it doesn't seem like he was capable of SSJ2 before Babidi released his power

He could go Super Saiyan 2 before Babidi.
Edited by Pyrus, Jul 26 2011, 11:58 PM.
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Steve
Jul 26 2011, 11:51 PM
Teen GohanZ
Jul 26 2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:
 
The fact he loses the Majin seal kinda helps prove it, and it never happens any other time in DBZ becuase Vegeta is the only character in DBZ to have a majin seal, die, then come back to life.

It doesn't prove it at all he just lost the seal so what? It's just a mark of being under the control of Babidi(or Bibidi)
But nobody just loses a massive power increase like that the only time that happens is with Gohan but that's due to 7 years of slacking off
Vegeta is the ONLY person who ever had Babidi's seal, died and came back to life, he's the ONLY person we can use as evidence, so depending on what you think either "Everybody" lost the powerup or "nobody" lost it, since Vegeta is the 1 character.


Quote:
 
And it doesn't seem like he was capable of SSJ2 before Babidi released his power, the fact that he retains SSJ2 must mean he retains the power he got also

I'm pretty sure he made a comment like "So Kakarot has passed to the next level as well" something along those lines anyway indicating Vegeta had also got to SSj2

Quote:
 

He loses the M because his master dies

Or because Vegeta died, that is, again, up to you to decide as neither can be proven.

Quote:
 

Yet he retains his power does he not? He doesn't just die because his creator does
If the power stays with Buu there's no reason why it wouldn't with Vegeta

There's no evidence Bibidi gave any extra power to Buu, and if he did there's no evidence he didn't lose any of it when Bibidi died. Remember Babidi didn't make Buu or give him any extra power, he just revived him.

Quote:
 
Babidi says he's already got control of Vegeta in the quote. The context part was a generalization of the entire process.

It actually happens while he's taking control of Vegeta, before we even see an M on his forehead. I just checked lol
Edited by Clearin, Jul 26 2011, 11:58 PM.
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Kalea_The_Saiyan
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didn't vegeta go into the hyperbolic time chamber when cell and the androids were attacking to "transcend super saiyan"? and when he came out, hadn't he succeeded? if that doesn't mean he got to SSJ2, then what does?
Krillin makes me laugh. Goku makes me cheer. Vegeta makes me scream. Gohan makes me gasp. And Piccolo makes me shut up.
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* Yu Narukami
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Well, if I recall correctly, when he ''transcended Super Saiyan'', he became an Ascended Super Saiyan. I'd classify that as a ''Super Saiyan 1.5'', if you will.
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Teen GohanZ
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8325557&t=8305872

It actually happens while he's taking control of Vegeta, before we even see an M on his forehead. I just checked lol

Hm, but he still has possession of Vegeta, like he states. The M could just be the final touch.
KrillinFan12
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8325563&t=8305872
didn't vegeta go into the hyperbolic time chamber when cell and the androids were attacking to "transcend super saiyan"? and when he came out, hadn't he succeeded? if that doesn't mean he got to SSJ2, then what does?

No, he reached Grades 2 and 3, which are imperfect attempts at Super Saiyan 2.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Oh well if even though he could go SSJ2 it would obviously be a weak version without the majin increase which I'm sure Kid Buu would tank easily that would put Goku incredibly far ahead of Vegeta he was on par with Kid Buu and Vegeta was strong enough to survive against him
That would make SSj3 Goku like 5 times stronger than SSj2 Vegeta
So that makes SSj2 Vegeta roughly 5x weaker than Kid Buu, who would have then utterly obliterated him with no trouble at all

I would say it makes more sense for it to be removed with death or the masters death if Vegeta never died why would it stay? It's not a tattoo it's a magical seal binding the victims soul to the caster

But Bibidi created Buu if the power they create disappeared after they died then Buu should have died when Bibidi did it only makes sense for their magic to work the same way

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Kalea_The_Saiyan
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but bibidi didn't have mind control over buu, he (i think bibidi is a guy! lol) created him. that's like saying that if you have a kid and then die, your kid dies too. or if your a scientist, and you make a robot, when you die, the robot blows up. bibidi was just buu's creator, not lifeline, or controller, dont forget, buu rebelled.
Krillin makes me laugh. Goku makes me cheer. Vegeta makes me scream. Gohan makes me gasp. And Piccolo makes me shut up.
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