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Do they ever die in Hell?
Topic Started: Jul 9 2011, 11:55 PM (1,573 Views)
RasDragon
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I was just thinking about this as I watched the end of GT. Goku was turned back into a kid, then in the end he's grown and watching Goku Jr VS Vegeta Jr in the martial arts tournament. It was very strange and saddening to see that Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chi Chi, Bulma, Gohan, Vegeta and everyone else who Goku knew and loved had finally passed on and Goku was there alone. Piccolo was trapped in Hell, and all the other villains that were in Hell. They never age, they never change? What in the world (no pun intended) happened to them?
Edited by RasDragon, Jul 9 2011, 11:57 PM.
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Ssj4Gogeta
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It kinda of creates a plothole that the anime created too.
Supposedly, when you die, unless you are REALLY good or saved the world/etc, you don't get your body(This explains Piccolo, but not other monsters/things we see in Hell, which is completly different from the Dbz hell too).
It's just kinda of a plothole, I guess.
In relation to if you can die in hell? Well, I guess so.
Those little souls they have can possibly be destroyed, which would kinda mean killing them forever..
"I am neither Goku nor Vegeta, I am the one who willl defeat you!"
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+ Green
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Flashy Thing!

No i don't think they die but it wouldn't make sense that people just stay there forever because it would become overcrowded.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Unless it's just an endless void which would make sense to exist seeing as the hyperbolic time chamber does

From the looks of it DBZ hell isn't even bad lol Cell and Frieza seem perfectly happy sure it would probably be boring but if you were one of the powerhouses you could just beat everyone up

It would only be a bad place to be if like you never got any food or water so you were constantly thirsty and hungry for all eternity, that would be hell
But they seem fine :S
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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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RasDragon
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Yeah Cell, Freeza, Ginyu Force, etc never change or age. They just hang out.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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Going out on a limb, but I'd probably that there are Heaven Bodies and Hell Bodies. If the bad guys had no bodies, then how could they be punished/tortured for 1000 yrs or an eternal or however long they get punished. I liked Yu Yu Hakusho because the last time you see younger Toguro, you kinda know that he's f***ed...

It'd explain how Piccolo could reign in Hell unbeaten, I guess his bodies better... or maybe he just gets stronger and the Hells don't progress...

Hard to say. GT end was sad... Z was better.
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Goten789
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Other World kinda reminds me of the greek underworld.

Heaven in DBZ is like Elysian Fields in Greek Mythology. Hell in DBZ is like Tartarus in Greek Mythology. And Heros get special treatment in Other World just as Heros got special treatment in the Greek Underworld.

I think in the manga the people in hell are all just cloud like souls. In the Anime they gave the villains in hell bodies for the sake of filler material. But I suppose you can say that the bodies of those in hell were meant so they could be tortured.

I would guess after awhile the souls in hell are eventually purified and reincarnated into a new life which adds a buddhist twist to this.

If my assumptions that Other World and the Greek Underworld are similar then I would say the souls in heaven live in bliss forever just like the souls who are sent to Elysian Fields in Greek Mythology.

I would say at one point in the early universe there was complete chaos and probably no seperation between the souls of the dead and the living. (Imagine the chaos at the end of God of War III but on a universal scale) This was probably when the Kais stepped in and created order and the cosmic hierarchy that is still present today. Part of what they did was to set up a way for the souls of the dead to be sent to another dimension when they die and this place became Other World.

I've tend to notice that greek mythology and DBZ have a lot in common in terms of the after life and such.

This is why I so wished they would have had a couple of sagas devoted to a creation myth for the DBZ universe and explaining how the Kais came to power and how Other World was set up and the how the cosmic hierarchy was created. Perhaps that could have even had a war in the early universe between the Kais and the DBZ equivalent of the Titans, where as the surviving member of the Titan race could have become the main villain of this Arc.

As for the actuall creation of the DBZ universe, maybe copy it from Greek Mythology as well, A primordial chaos where all the energies of the universe ran wild and from this chaos a new force was born, life. The force of life drew in the other energies and the universe was formed.

But I guess I'm just rambling now, but yeah. Some interesting stuff to think about.

Back on topic the thing that got me in GT was why Cell and Frieza didn't fade out of existence when Goku killed them? According to what was said in the Buu Saga, when a dead soul is killed again then they don't exist anymore. If Frieza and Cell were dead then they should have dissapeared out of existence when Goku killed them again. Perhaps the opening between hell and Earth caused a disturbance that kept Frieza and Cell constantly coming back to life and that is why they didn't dissapear. That's what I like to think anyways.
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Kruegs Outlandish
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Goten789
Jul 11 2011, 11:11 PM
Other World kinda reminds me of the greek underworld.

Heaven in DBZ is like Elysian Fields in Greek Mythology. Hell in DBZ is like Tartarus in Greek Mythology. And Heros get special treatment in Other World just as Heros got special treatment in the Greek Underworld.

I think in the manga the people in hell are all just cloud like souls. In the Anime they gave the villains in hell bodies for the sake of filler material. But I suppose you can say that the bodies of those in hell were meant so they could be tortured.

I would guess after awhile the souls in hell are eventually purified and reincarnated into a new life which adds a buddhist twist to this.

If my assumptions that Other World and the Greek Underworld are similar then I would say the souls in heaven live in bliss forever just like the souls who are sent to Elysian Fields in Greek Mythology.

I would say at one point in the early universe there was complete chaos and probably no seperation between the souls of the dead and the living. (Imagine the chaos at the end of God of War III but on a universal scale) This was probably when the Kais stepped in and created order and the cosmic hierarchy that is still present today. Part of what they did was to set up a way for the souls of the dead to be sent to another dimension when they die and this place became Other World.

I've tend to notice that greek mythology and DBZ have a lot in common in terms of the after life and such.

This is why I so wished they would have had a couple of sagas devoted to a creation myth for the DBZ universe and explaining how the Kais came to power and how Other World was set up and the how the cosmic hierarchy was created. Perhaps that could have even had a war in the early universe between the Kais and the DBZ equivalent of the Titans, where as the surviving member of the Titan race could have become the main villain of this Arc.

As for the actuall creation of the DBZ universe, maybe copy it from Greek Mythology as well, A primordial chaos where all the energies of the universe ran wild and from this chaos a new force was born, life. The force of life drew in the other energies and the universe was formed.

But I guess I'm just rambling now, but yeah. Some interesting stuff to think about.

Back on topic the thing that got me in GT was why Cell and Frieza didn't fade out of existence when Goku killed them? According to what was said in the Buu Saga, when a dead soul is killed again then they don't exist anymore. If Frieza and Cell were dead then they should have dissapeared out of existence when Goku killed them again. Perhaps the opening between hell and Earth caused a disturbance that kept Frieza and Cell constantly coming back to life and that is why they didn't dissapear. That's what I like to think anyways.
Cool story bro... j/k

Parallel's are always interesting. I'd bank DBZ Underworld to be based more off of Japanese Mythos though, and just state the similarities between that and Greek.

Creation story would be an interesting Z Movie though. Would love it despite people screaming, "IMMA FIRING MY NON-CANON!"

Did Goku kill Frieza and Cell in Hell? I thought they had gotten frozen by their own technique... I'm not quite sure; I'm just guessing at most, but yeah, I don't think he actually killed them.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

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I would guess after awhile the souls in hell are eventually purified and reincarnated into a new life which adds a buddhist twist to this.

I never thought about it like that for some reason, makes sense though

That would better explain the existance of the abomination that is Uub than just Shenron randomly granting Goku a wish for no reason, does anything actualy say that or did people just decide that's what happened?

Because thinking about it like that I'd say that Kid Buu had a powerful soul and in hell where it got cleansed of all evil and then we get...Uub <_<

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Definitely not a succubus, fear not
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Kruegs Outlandish
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Steveboy777
Jul 12 2011, 12:26 AM
That would better explain the existance of the abomination that is Uub than just Shenron randomly granting Goku a wish for no reason, does anything actualy say that or did people just decide that's what happened?
Without going back to the manga for confirmation, I believe there was still one more wish left for the Dragon to grant, and Goku had wished that Buu would come back as a good people, and give him a rematch. The Dragon overheard and decided to grant that wish.
Edited by Kruegs Outlandish, Aug 1 2011, 06:16 PM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

No I don't think there was another wish was there? 1.Was it not restore the earth 2. Restore all the good people killed since the tournament 3. Put Goku's power back up?

I don't see why Shenron would have granted him a wish I never read the manga but in the anime he doesn't direct it to Shenron or anything don't think he even says the word wish(that's for the english dub btw) pretty sure he says "I hope that someday you'll come back as a better person" then states that he'd like to have a one on one with him
Actualy wait no it's Porunga not Shenron anyway lol but still
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Goten789
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Yeah a creation myth and an explanation as to how the cosmic hierarchy and how other world was set up is the biggest mysteries the series left unanswered and it's something I really wish they would have explored. I think if they had created a few sagas focusing on this in GT between the Baby and Super 17 sagas then that would have completed the series nicely, and then end it with the shadow dragon saga of course.

Anyways as for Cell and Frieza in GT. Yeah Goku killed them both in hell again. He blasted Cell with a Kamehameha and sliced Frieza in half with a Destructo Disc that Frieza himself made. Cell and Frieza both just stood up after that and said, "Here in Hell our bodies are immortal." "You can never kill me because i'm already dead" This contradicts the Buu saga where Goku says to a dead Vegeta, "If you die again I wont be able to bring you back. You wont exist anymore. You'll be gone forever."

I would say this is probably the biggest plot hole GT presents.

As for Kid Buu being reincarnated as Uub. I believe King Yemma overheard Goku's request and made it happen, Goku even says so at the tournament where he first meets Uub. Remember King Yemma was watching the fight between Goku and Kid Buu on a TV.

I think though eventually all souls in Hell would eventually be purified and reincarnated but there may be so many souls in hell that it takes decades before a soul could get their turn to be reincarnated which would explain why Cell and Frieza are still hanging out down there. I'd like to think by the time Goku Jr. is around that Cell and Frieza have probably been reincarnated by then. It would be funny if Cell and Frieza's reincarnations were to become friends of Goku Jr. and help make up a team of new Z fighters lol.

But I think Uub was reincarnated rather quickly because Goku had requested it. And since King Yemma owes Goku a few favors I would say King Yemma made it happen quickly instead of Kid Buu having to wait decades like a normal resident of Hell would.

This is all speculation of course but it would make sense.
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Spirit
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I think if your dead and your given a body and die again. You'd no longer exist. Like what Goku told Vegeta, before Vegeta got himself abused by Buu lol
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