Necifix

Aug 17 2011, 10:27 AM

You have yet to learn of the alternate timeline theory for movie 10.

And I never trust online translations. They're usually off. The Viz Manga is much easier on Gohan.

PerfectCell

Aug 17 2011, 12:53 PM

The unbelievable truth is LSSJ Broly movie 10>SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta

vegetarules16

Aug 17 2011, 09:55 PM

I like Broly as a character, I just don't like how people overrate him. But I do agree with this...

"Okay, since I've been, erm, "invited" to take part, here's my contribution to the entire thing. This might end up long, so I'll bold the important points.

At first glance, Movie 8 might appear to take place at the Cell Games' point in time, and this is the biggest point in the idea or argument that Broly is equal or superior to Perfect Cell at full power. But this isn't necessarily the case.

First off, note that just about every single DBZ movie is a sort of "counterpart" to some point in the series. This is evident by examining the strengths, abilities, and appearances of the characters within it. For example, Movie 2 is a parallel to the battle with Vegeta, with Wheelo playing the "part" of Vegeta himself in his battle with Goku. Movie 4 is a callback to the later parts of Namek, with Goku's battles with Slug's minions drawing heavily from his beat-down of the Ginyu Force, and with Slug being an amalgam in power and role of Ginyu himself and Freeza. Coola is a parallel of Freeza in Movie 5 and the Androids in Movie 6. And so forth.

Broly himself especially falls into this trend. It's just a matter of which villain, and at which point, he is equated to. The best way we can do this is by more closely examining the heroes who fought him.

First off, Goku and Gohan. They are the biggest factors in this entire ordeal. The mere fact that they were both Super Saiyans seems to confirm that they're their Cell Games selves in Movie 8, correct? No, not automatically, and for one big reason: Gohan was weaker than Goku.

This was most definitely not the case in the Cell Games, where Gohan had a lead sizable enough to shock everyone present, and even enough power to pique Cell's interest. But in Movie 8, Gohan was portrayed as easily the weakest of the Super Saiyan heroes. Compared to the durability he showed when under attack by Cell, Gohan was KO'd very easily by Broly. Presuming the two villains have comparable power, this is a big discrepancy.

And it's not just Gohan's power in question. Despite none of them managing to do any real damage, all of the Super Saiyan heroes are able to withstand Broly's attacks for a good amount of time. ALL of them, not just Goku. Vegeta and Trunks were no better or worse off. Even Piccolo was able to keep up. In the Cell Games, this wasn't the case. Goku, Gohan, and Cell all had very large leads on everyone else.

Trunks and Vegeta, at times, seem to be using their "Grade 2" stage in the fight against Broly. It's not definitive, but the amount of muscle mass suggests it. This is something they'd evidently both abandoned by the Cell Games (they have less musculature, and never exhibit anything but a regular Super Saiyan aura).

So all in all, how does this leave the heroes, and at what "point" in the main series does this Movie connect to? There's an easy answer, and it's something best known as the "Mid-RoSaT" theory.

Specifically, it addresses Gohan and Goku's evident weakness in comparison to their Cell Games selves by supposing that they'd left the Room of Spirit and Time early for some reason or another. Which would indicate that, one way or another, Cell was dealt with without them. Maybe "Super" Vegeta didn't fall for Cell's coaxing and killed him before becoming Perfect, or his Final Flash happened to hit Cell's core and finished him off, or SSj Grade 3 Trunks managed to catch him... Who knows.

I'm sure that, despite himself probably wanting to train more, in such a situation Goku wouldn't insist on staying in the room. With the threat gone, he wouldn't force Gohan to stay in the room away from friends and family (ChiChi in particular would want him out now that there's no need to fight). Not to mention that wasting time in the room that might be needed later wouldn't be a wise idea.

So, long story short, we didn't have this Gohan in Movie 8, we had this one. He and Goku had, presumably, already mastered Super Saiyan, but didn't get to spend enough time training to amass the huge amount of raw power they did in the series. Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo, however, would be the same as they were in their tangos with the Androids and Semiperfect Cell.

So, in the series, at the Cell Games, the power-ranking was something like this:

Cell > Gohan > Goku >>> Vegeta > Trunks > Piccolo

But in Movie 8, it was more like this:

Broly > Goku > Vegeta > Trunks > Gohan > Piccolo

In both cases, the villains are stronger than the main heroes. But the power of the heroes themselves are drastically different. When we combine it, here's how things measure up:

Perfect Cell > Gohan (Cell Games) > Goku (Cell Games) >>> Vegeta (Cell Games) > Trunks (Cell Games) > Perfect Cell (Suppressed, vs Vegeta & Trunks) = Broly (Movie 8) > Goku (Movie 8) > Vegeta (Movie 8) < Trunks (Movie 8) < Gohan (Movie 8)

A-ha, do you see what I did there? That's right, I think we've figured out which series villain Broly compares to in Movie 8. It's still Perfect Cell, but at his first appearance. Not his drastically powered-up form against SSj2 Gohan, or even against Goku. He represents the weaker tier of the "Perfect Cell range" of power. The same way Slug represented first-form Freeza while Coola represented Freeza's higher levels. Our space-pirate-pal Bojack would represent Perfect Cell at his best.

That's the important part, I'd say. Having worked all that out, Movie 10 is much easier to pick out just where it's placed in the series. It's in the early portions of the Majin Boo arc, during the training before the tournament. It's easy to tell from the appearance and abilities of the characters. Gohan is annoyed that he's actually having trouble with Broly, noting that he's gotten even stronger "than last time."

Since in context he means "the last time I fought Broly," this lends heavily to the "mid-RoSaT" theory for Movie 8. Gohan at this point in the series is actually weaker than he was at the Cell Games. So in order for there to be a substantial difference between now and then for him, then his Movie 8 self can't have been as strong as his Cell Games self. So here's how things now stack up (Super Saiyan forms notwithstanding):

> Gohan (Cell Games) > Broly (Movie 10) > Gohan (Movie 10) > Broly (Movie 8) > Gohan (Movie 8)

With that figured out, there's only one small factor remaining in figuring out how Broly compares in Movie 10, and that actually boils down to opinion and choice, rather than hard facts.

If you decide to take the concept art to heart, and assume Gohan was using Super Saiyan 2 in Movie 10, then Broly in that same film becomes the movies' equivalent of Super Perfect Cell.

If instead, like me, you decide not to take Toei's word for it since they don't know their asses from their hands when it comes to visually differentiating the Super Saiyan forms, and thus assume Gohan was only at Super Saiyan 1, then Movie 10 Broly becomes the equivalent of Dabra.

So, in summary:

Broly in Movie 8 is equivalent to Cell when he was greatly-suppressed and beating up Vegeta. Cell or any Super Saiyan at the Cell Games would smoke him.

Broly in Movie 10 is roughly equivalent to either Dabra or to Super Perfect Cell. Any Super Saiyan 2 as strong or stronger than Cell Games Gohan would smoke him.

No freakin' way does he come close to ANY form of Boo (with the possible exception of the split "Mister" and "Pure Evil" Boos, but your mileage may vary on that one).

Okay? Everyone's happy!"

Posted by Kaboom

http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14597&start=20

Cocoman_;22110978

 

Before anyone calls me a 'Brolytard' or w/e, I do not have any sort of bias in this thread so go ahead and try to prove me wrong.

First off i'm going to look at the timeline where the movies are set in.
This is theoretical but the most likely continuity which the movies follow is;

1. Rosat training and announcement of the cell games.

2. Movie 8

3. Cell games

4. Gohan keeps up at least light training over the years, and get's noticeably stronger, instead of weaker

5. Movie 10

6. Babidi is defeated before buu can be ressurected, because gohan easily beat's dabura.

7. Movie 11

My reasons for this are;

A) In movie 8, Vegeta and Trunks are shown in there USSJ forms. People try to argue against this but if you compare the before and after they transform images, there is clear muscle expansion. This all means that they are post RoSaT. This also explains why Gohan is MSSJ as well as Goku.

B) Goku is dead in movie 10 + the movie 8 could easily take place in the 10 day gap. People argue that the Cell games don't happen in the movie 8 timeline because Goku and Gohan are in base. However this could be explained by ChiChi telling Goku to power down for the school interview.

C) Gohan states that he had powered up during 7 year gap.
http://i52.tinypic.com/vwrf43.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/260311h.jpg
This suggests that he did continue his training and gained a noticable power increase. Before anybody replies 'he is obviiiously talking about SSJ2', take note that he said this after trying to fight SSJ Broly in BASE.

D)The dragonballs are used in movie 10. This suggests that Vegeta was never possessed by Babidi. This further suggests that Dabura never had a chance to tell Babidi about the possible evil within Vegeta therefore Gohan must have easily defeated Dabura.

E) Since Buu was never released, this paves the way for movie 11.


I am going to try to keep my different points separate so i'll post all about the SSJ2's in the next post.

Additional Comment:

*waits imminent Gohan wasn't SSJ2 comment*
http://i53.tinypic.com/24m5ohy.jpg
Need I say much more? Gohan is clearly drawn as an SSJ2 in movie 10.


'Was Goku SSJ2 in the final beam struggle?'
This point is completely a matter of opinion but i think these images point towards him really being SSJ2.
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9956/030f.jpg
Translation - "Put forth your power! A three-man father and son Kamehameha!!"
http://i53.tinypic.com/1o5zqt.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/pocw4.jpg

At a couple of moments in the manga, Goku's hair is shown to be blown back while in SSJ and it gives the appearance of SSJ2 ie one bang
http://i51.tinypic.com/2ir5k6b.jpg
However note that Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku and his isn't blown back into his 'blown back' style.
As i said this is completely a matter of opinion.


I am going to post solely on Broly's power and draw a conclusion to his strength vs the others.

Cocoman_;22111278

 

From the Dazienshuu we know that SSJ Broly>MSSJ Goku Buu arc;
http://www.kanzentai.com/trans-daiz06.php?m=13&id=dbz10#link
'He transforms into a Super Saiyan, just like Goku and the others. Because he possessed high battle ability from birth, he is the owner of power that surpasses Goku's.'

As shown by the way he ROFLstomped SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks, we know that SSJ Broly>>SSJ Goten & SSJ Trunks
This reinforces the fact that Gohan is stronger in movie 10 than his main timeline counterpart because MSSJ Gohan and SSJ Goten were similar strength wise.
+Note that Gohan transforms straight into SSJ2 from base when Broly was still SSJ. We can then assume that SSJ Broly>MSSJ Gohan(movie 10).

I think that since Gohan had already achieved SSJ2 at the Cell games and since he trained in the 7 year gap, SSJ2 Gohan(movie10)>SSJ2 Vegeta.

Judging by the LSSJ Broly dominates SSJ2 Gohan(movie 10), LSSJ Broly>>SSJ2 Gohan(movie 10).

In conclusion i have came up with;

Mr Buu>=<LSSJ Broly(movie 10)>SSJ2 Goku/Majin Vegeta>=SSJ2 Teen Gohan(movie10)>SSJ2 Vegeta>SSJ2 Kid Gohan>SSJ2 Teen Gohan(main timeline).

vegetarules16

Aug 17 2011, 10:27 PM

But Gohan wasn't training during that 7 year gap, and Mr. Buu should be above Broly Movie 10.