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'New' Movie 10 Daizenshuu Sketch; New food for thought
Topic Started: Jun 9 2011, 05:29 AM (12,915 Views)
Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Not to mention. This is a movie Toei can give Broly any ability they want, so giving him the ability to sense chi isn't so freaking weird.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.



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Super Gohan
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Necifix
Jun 10 2011, 12:06 PM
When he went SSj2 against Yakon, it was a massive burst and one could not see his features.

Yes, they re-colored Goku. So what? That's quite different than completely re-drawing him and re-doing the scene.


The manga was clear, he has no bangs at all:

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You mean like how the Daizenshuu page basically re-drew the scene? It wasn't changed then, it wasn't changed later on. It's obvious they had no intent on portraying him as a SSj2, the only one suggesting it is yourself.
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Paikuan extreme
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Ussj Future Trunks
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God of Shinobi

"Super Saiya-jin 2’s distinguishing characteristics are the upright hair and the intense sparks."
so why didnt gohan have those...god damn toei. you just dismantled everyones arguments. how can we use daiz as a source when it cant keep its distinguishing factors right? i mean in every toei filler/movie, an aura'd ssj2 has always had sparks even for a split second. ss3 goku in movie 12 def had sparks. so whats the problem? did they waste all the budget of movie 10 on hiring crappy writers? not only that but its awfully conveniant for them to bring back the whole gohan-has-two-bangs-in ssj1- when toriyama had long moved past it by the time the movie came out. three times, gohan ssj1 had lacked the double hair bang trait. was toei trolling or just inconsistent as hell for one movie, and then never again (until gt when sparks drop out altogether).
"I am Lord Freeza, whom none surpass me; no one even comes close!
BURN THIS INTO YOUR MIND! I am emperor of the universe! The likes of you are only fit to grovel at my FEET....or better still TO BE CRUSHED, LIKE AN INSECT AT THe WHIM OF YOUR MASTER!!!- Chris Ayres, Freeza, DBZKAI dub from Funimation
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Cocoman
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Ussj Future Trunks
Jul 8 2011, 01:21 AM
"Super Saiya-jin 2’s distinguishing characteristics are the upright hair and the intense sparks."
so why didnt gohan have those...god damn toei. you just dismantled everyones arguments. how can we use daiz as a source when it cant keep its distinguishing factors right? i mean in every toei filler/movie, an aura'd ssj2 has always had sparks even for a split second. ss3 goku in movie 12 def had sparks. so whats the problem? did they waste all the budget of movie 10 on hiring crappy writers? not only that but its awfully conveniant for them to bring back the whole gohan-has-two-bangs-in ssj1- when toriyama had long moved past it by the time the movie came out. three times, gohan ssj1 had lacked the double hair bang trait. was toei trolling or just inconsistent as hell for one movie, and then never again (until gt when sparks drop out altogether).
Well i think one thing that Toei remained consistent is the facial expression of SSJ2 Gohan and how it differs from MSSJ Gohan.

So I think the Gohan character designs are still valid.
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Ussj Future Trunks
Jul 8 2011, 01:21 AM
"Super Saiya-jin 2’s distinguishing characteristics are the upright hair and the intense sparks."
so why didnt gohan have those...god damn toei. you just dismantled everyones arguments. how can we use daiz as a source when it cant keep its distinguishing factors right? i mean in every toei filler/movie, an aura'd ssj2 has always had sparks even for a split second. ss3 goku in movie 12 def had sparks. so whats the problem? did they waste all the budget of movie 10 on hiring crappy writers? not only that but its awfully conveniant for them to bring back the whole gohan-has-two-bangs-in ssj1- when toriyama had long moved past it by the time the movie came out. three times, gohan ssj1 had lacked the double hair bang trait. was toei trolling or just inconsistent as hell for one movie, and then never again (until gt when sparks drop out altogether).
Not in every filler or movie.

Movie 12: Goku never once had lightning as a Super Saiyan 2. Neither did Vegeta, although I can't remember if he had an aura.
Movie 13: Both of them had auras and no sparks.

Goku & Vegeta vs Gohan-Boo: Vegeta's got sparks for one second randomly, but Goku never does. Make of that what you will. Lol.
Vegeta vs Kid Boo: Vegeta never displays sparks, even though he did in the manga.
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Wintergreen5000
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Exactly. To me, it's a logical argument I make against the scan. You have two facts. One is Gohan was SSjin 2 when he faced LSSjin Broly. The second fact is that Broly's ki orb was shattered by what seems to be SSjin 1s. Now, how can Broly be defeated by simple SSjins [weak ones too] if he just crushed an SSjin 2, unless Toei's notion of an SSjin 1 Gohan defies all logic given to us by the manga? I tend to liken it to Movie 8, where a fresh and seeminly invincible Broly is defeated in one punch by the rag-tag Z-Gang combined. It simply doesn't make sense, but they needed a way to defeat the villain. This could be the same thing taking place a second time. Toei has never displayed themselves to be very knowledgable about the boundaries of powers. And Videl taking a hit from SSjin Broly is a proof of this.
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Super_Gohan
Jun 10 2011, 10:23 PM
Necifix
Jun 10 2011, 12:06 PM
When he went SSj2 against Yakon, it was a massive burst and one could not see his features.

Yes, they re-colored Goku. So what? That's quite different than completely re-drawing him and re-doing the scene.


The manga was clear, he has no bangs at all:

Posted Image

You mean like how the Daizenshuu page basically re-drew the scene? It wasn't changed then, it wasn't changed later on. It's obvious they had no intent on portraying him as a SSj2, the only one suggesting it is yourself.
Thankyou, this is proof to everyone that they knew how to draw Super Saiyan 2. The artists were given clean sketches by Akira himself, they didn't decide to 'make it up' on the spot because it looked similar.
They had the designs, and they drew them consistently throughout all the movies. The only thing inconsistent is the aura's.

A fresh, full strength- Full Power Super Saiyan Goku isn't classified as weak either.
Goten was weakened, Gohan was weakened but not severely.

He had a very short fight with Broly yet he's meant to be completely out of gas? No way
Gohan's fight with Cell was much longer and he endured much more than he had to with Broly yet he still was in the game.

I'd like to make a point.

1. Just because their bodies are beaten up doesn't mean they cant use their full power, or a lot of power in general, which coincides with number -->
2. You don't need to be at full power to perform a full power energy attack- as shown evidently with Piccolo and his special beam cannon.
3. Full Power attacks aren't necessarily the max full power of the fighter, its energy multiplication and/or concentration(not mental, physical concentration) that takes their full power attacks beyond their normal limit.

a) Goku performed a Full Power Energy Attack at MSSJ level
b) While Gohan was injured he had no trouble transforming and successfully performed a Full Power Energy attack while not necessarily being at full power at MSSJ level
c) Goten was quite injured and still while not being at full power could transform easily and pull off a Full Power Energy attack at MSSJ/SSJ level

Even Goku knew what they were capable of, trying to help them release their full power in an injured state.

Goku: " Concentrate!!, Release everything!! Dig deeper Gohan! Push past your fear Goten! Are you willing to let him destroy the planet!!? We can end this now but we must work together!!"

I haven't seen it in a while so those lines might be a bit out but i remember the dialogue.
Point being he was pushing them past their mental limitations.



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gohan was actually ssj2
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If I may... I remember posting an excerpt from the movie's daizenshuu entry, stating that Gohan had indeed exhausted himself against Broly. Ah, here it is:

"But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!"
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p123
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SSJ2 Kid Gohan 55
Broly 10/ SPC/ SSJ2 Vegeta 50
SSJ2 Teen Gohan 40
Broly M8 27.5
PC 25
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Kamikaze Pyro
Jul 17 2011, 10:28 PM
If I may... I remember posting an excerpt from the movie's daizenshuu entry, stating that Gohan had indeed exhausted himself against Broly. Ah, here it is:

"But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!"
And that would only prove my point further to say that Gohan couldn't go SSJ2 which is why he went MSSJ to begin with as MSSJ is strainless from mastering it, it practically is his base augmented with his Super Saiyan power.

They cant/ never have transformed and fired a full power energy wave within a split second. One might try to say he bursted SSJ2 but then still, you would have to explain where he got the power from.

We know Goku is MSSJ and so is Goten so why would they make only Gohan SSJ2 for a split second?
A coloured edited picture that doesn't even appear in the actual movie itself isn't any sort of evidence at all.

If you watch the movie you'll clearly that scan doesn't exist in the movie, it's just has a close up of Gohan's face on the side, Goku and Goten then it cuts to the wave being launched at full power, there is no wide shot picture of the 3 of them from the front like that. There is a front on shot but it happens so quickly you barely get to see them and their glowing from the wave.

Goku is clearly Super Saiyan with his trademark '1 bang' hairstyle that he always has when he fires/ emits power from the Kamehameha wave. His hair always completely blows back except for one bang that shacks violently.

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They wouldn't make Gohan Super Saiyan 2 because then he would be more powerful than MSSJ Goku and we all know thats never the case in the movies.
Just making one of them SSJ2 completely discludes Goten, but saying they were both SSJ2? Goten may as well have just layed back down looking half dead.

"But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!"

Physical Strength falls in line with stamina. Without stamina you have no strength to do anything. It saying he had no energy left, it's merely saying he was stuffed from the fight.

Edited by Ryebrid, Jul 18 2011, 11:56 AM.
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Cocoman
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p123
Jul 18 2011, 12:22 AM
SSJ2 Kid Gohan 55
Broly 10/ SPC/ SSJ2 Vegeta 50
SSJ2 Teen Gohan 40
Broly M8 27.5
PC 25
Wrong .

Broly is waaaaaay to low and SSJ2 Vegeta is aswell.
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Cocoman
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DbzHybrid
Jul 18 2011, 11:33 AM
Kamikaze Pyro
Jul 17 2011, 10:28 PM
If I may... I remember posting an excerpt from the movie's daizenshuu entry, stating that Gohan had indeed exhausted himself against Broly. Ah, here it is:

"But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!"
And that would only prove my point further to say that Gohan couldn't go SSJ2 which is why he went MSSJ to begin with as MSSJ is strainless from mastering it, it practically is his base augmented with his Super Saiyan power.

They cant/ never have transformed and fired a full power energy wave within a split second. One might try to say he bursted SSJ2 but then still, you would have to explain where he got the power from.

We know Goku is MSSJ and so is Goten so why would they make only Gohan SSJ2 for a split second?
A coloured edited picture that doesn't even appear in the actual movie itself isn't any sort of evidence at all.

If you watch the movie you'll clearly that scan doesn't exist in the movie, it's just has a close up of Gohan's face on the side, Goku and Goten then it cuts to the wave being launched at full power, there is no wide shot picture of the 3 of them from the front like that. There is a front on shot but it happens so quickly you barely get to see them and their glowing from the wave.

Goku is clearly Super Saiyan with his trademark '1 bang' hairstyle that he always has when he fires/ emits power from the Kamehameha wave. His hair always completely blows back except for one bang that shacks violently.

Posted Image

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Posted Image

They wouldn't make Gohan Super Saiyan 2 because then he would be more powerful than MSSJ Goku and we all know thats never the case in the movies.
Just making one of them SSJ2 completely discludes Goten, but saying they were both SSJ2? Goten may as well have just layed back down looking half dead.

"But Kuririn rescues Gohan, who had used up all his strength and was about to be swallowed up by the lava. However, Broli is still alive!"

Physical Strength falls in line with stamina. Without stamina you have no strength to do anything. It saying he had no energy left, it's merely saying he was stuffed from the fight.

But you have to explain why Goten's hairstyle doesn't blow back into a 'one bang' style.

That why I think Goku was SSJ2.
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I'm not saying Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 during the beam struggle. I've never said that and I most likely never will. He had two bangs during the beam struggle.
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