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| 'New' Movie 10 Daizenshuu Sketch; New food for thought | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 9 2011, 05:29 AM (12,917 Views) | |
| Super Gohan | Jun 9 2011, 12:52 PM Post #16 |
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I don't consider it strong evidence. The artist of the page appears to have just touched up the frame from the movie a little:![]() ![]() But it doesn't really serve much purpose for Goku to transform into SSJ2 for just one second at the end, and not when he first makes his entrance in the film. I don't even think its possible for them to use SSJ forms while firing the Kamehameha. At least we've seen his hair take that appearance before when firing a Kamehameha as a SSJ: ![]() And that's probably all it is. |
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Jun 9 2011, 01:16 PM Post #17 |
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Badabing!
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I really want to see your revised Broly topic man ![]() tbh I have looked like a bit of a Broly fanboy recently because I have looked into movie 10 ALOT and found a few things. OT: I'm not sure if these sketches can be used as valid evidence but Goku's hairstyle does look flat out SSJ2 compared to Goten who has effectively the same hairstyle. I previously thought that at the end of the beam struggle both Gohan and Goku were SSJ2 but now i think it is more likely that only Goku was because he was the only one who wasn't worn out through battle. I also find it interesting that Broly wasn't actually hurt by the kamehameha itself and he was only killed when he went into the Sun. If this is true it might explain how he was easily able to take on a mid-maybe high tier ssj2 (where i put movie 10 Gohan). |
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| Nusu | Jun 9 2011, 03:14 PM Post #18 |
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.
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Well, Broly activated his chi-shield right before he got blown away. If he was able to survive the beam without it is unknown. |
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Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one. | |
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| Fulgore | Jun 9 2011, 03:37 PM Post #19 |
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The Darkness Returns
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This picture is indeed very stupid. Goku and Gohan have the SSj2 Bang, but they don't have the thousand other hair strands in the back that SSj2 is so use to Super Gohan proposed a good point as well. I guess it's not completely unheard of for Goku to get the bang Edited by Fulgore, Jun 9 2011, 03:39 PM.
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![]() Self-proclaimed and unoffical 2013-14 DBZF Weekly NFL Pick 'em Champion | |
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Jun 9 2011, 03:59 PM Post #20 |
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Badabing!
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Ye of course Goku has had one bang before while in SSJ eg in the RoSaT but Goten has essentially the same hairstyle as Goku that's why i'm convinced that he is SSJ2. Edited by Cocoman, Jun 9 2011, 04:32 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jun 9 2011, 04:49 PM Post #21 |
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That's right before it cuts away to the Kamehameha relaunching, in which case we can't see them up close anymore. There's no more footage of them, so there's no way you'd be able to possibly prove he went Super Saiyan 2 at the last moment. With Goten, I can't find any point in the series where his bangs ever all go up like Goku's, even when wind is directly impacting him, so I'm thinking Goten's hair just never really changes, while we've seen Goku's hair like that even prior to the Cell Games. |
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| Sam | Jun 9 2011, 07:49 PM Post #22 |
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.
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But, that's not really an "in-universe" reason for why Goten's hair wasn't affected. My accessment: Given this was from the Daizenshuu, it holds a level of credibility higher than the anime. Yes, Goku's hair has blown back in the past. However, not exactly like in that picture. You seem to be ignoring or not acknowledging my other points: In the picture, Gohan and Goku both have SSj2-like qualities on their face. While it is unknown if Gohan transformed at the last moment (possible, but, I'm guessing not, he seemed too worn out). Goten's hair is not "blown back" while Goku's is. Plus, Goku's seems firmly planted in with the rest of his hair. His hair is also sharply defined, unlike that Freeza saga Goku picture and all the other pictures you've shown. He also has the signature "serious business" look on his face. Gohan looks SSj2 as well, but, it is impossible to prove it either way based on what we have from the movie. It is likely he wasn't though, due to the beating he had sustained (otherwise he would have transformed to SSj2 from the get-go). In fact, the ending of movie 10 makes more sense if Goku was SSj2. Why else would Broly be afraid of a triple Kamehameha from two beat-down MSSj's and a MSSj he's stronger than as a regular SSj? It doesn't make sense. A triple Kamehameha from the three of them at MSSj would probably barely scratch him, if not do anything. Yet, why was he in fear? Why did he feel the need to put up a barrier? I think Broly is 5-10% stronger than SSj2 Goku (full power), but, even then, a Super Kamehameha from him would cause some serious hurt on him. Add in MSSj Teen Gohan and SSj Goten, even if they are very injured, and he is suddenly very overwhelmed. That Kamehameha may not have killed him, but, would have packed a major punch (no reference to movie 8 intended, heh heh) and cause severe, possibly almost fatal injuries. That's why he was in fear. That's why he put up a shield. That's why they directed it into the sun, because they didn't want him to come back like he did in movie 8, stronger yet again. Goku being SSj2 fits the Daizenshuu sketch, the movie and it also makes sense why Broly would fear a triple Kamehameha from them. It also explains why they directed it into the sun. It makes the second Broly movie ending make perfect sense. While completely discrediting the Daizenshuu sketch and movie frames does not and only leaves the problems open-ended. This is the only solution I can come up with to explain why Broly would fear the triple Kamehameha, especially since 2/3 of the guys in the Kamehameha were just barely conscious and he was stronger than MSSj Goku as just a plain SSj. Edited by Sam, Jun 9 2011, 08:17 PM.
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WoW Legion Ending - Thank you Darker for making this into one, big incredible gif! <3 | |
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Jun 9 2011, 11:23 PM Post #23 |
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Badabing!
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Also remember Broly was basically dominating the beam struggle until Trunks launched a Ki blast with the last of his spare energy to create a shield-type-thing preventing Broly to add to the beam struggle. |
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| Super Gohan | Jun 9 2011, 11:36 PM Post #24 |
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The Daizenshuu art doesn't even support him using SSJ2. Goku's SSJ2 appearance has 1 bang in front and 2 (sometimes 3) on the sides. The image only has the one above his forehead.
Broly did try stopping the beam with his Ki attacks but it didn't work. I don't think he was in fear, it's not like he can sense Ki or anything. |
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Jun 9 2011, 11:41 PM Post #25 |
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Badabing!
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He could sense Ki in movie 8 i'm sure. Didn't he comment on Goku's increase in power after Vegeta gave it to him? I think he also knew it wouldn't be enough to beat him in a straight up fight but Goku opened up the scar he got as a baby. edit: I think if he could sense Ki it would add to him being the SSJ born with the natural ability to fight. Edited by Cocoman, Jun 9 2011, 11:43 PM.
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| Super Gohan | Jun 9 2011, 11:51 PM Post #26 |
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Sensing Ki was a special ability only Earthlings developed at first, and Broly never really had the free will to think for himself, because of Paragus' mind control device. One of the biggest indicators of him not having the ability is when he is looking for Kid Trunks in the waterfall, relying solely on his eyes. If he could sense Ki, he would've found him easily. |
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Jun 10 2011, 12:04 AM Post #27 |
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Badabing!
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But Trunks could have been suppressing his pl (unless he was in ssj i can't remember). The thing is, if Broly was born with the ability to use his Ki, who can say he can't read pl's after he commented on Goku's power. And also humans were not the only ones who could read pl's. The Namekians could as well as Popo. |
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| Super Gohan | Jun 10 2011, 12:22 AM Post #28 |
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But even a PL of 1 is capable of being sensed, and it isn't like Broly was far away from Trunks, he was very near. I could probably check Movie 8 again, although I don't really feel like it. By "Earthlings" I wasn't referring to just humans. And Ki sensing was shown to be a rare ability that must be learned, it wasn't dependent on how large your Ki was. Although for the Namekians it may have been a hereditary ability since they're more magical beings. Edited by Super Gohan, Jun 10 2011, 12:23 AM.
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Jun 10 2011, 01:00 AM Post #29 |
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Badabing!
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But in a way Broly is the only one of his kind in the dragonball universe. He is the one Saiyan with the natural ability to fight from an early age giving him a 'legendary status' so he could easily be capable of sensing Ki. My point is that there is no evidence that he couldn't sense power levels because in the Namek saga, Vegeta couldn't sense Krillen or Gohan because they suppressed their's. |
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| + Pyrus | Jun 10 2011, 01:01 AM Post #30 |
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He knew exactly where Trunks was in that vast area of waterfalls. Trunks just kept moving. If he couldn't sense ki, he would've been there all day looking through those waterfalls. He wasn't using just his eyes since there would've been no way for him to see Trunks through the water. For more examples, watch Movie 8 when Broly senses Goku in the spaceship before even Vegeta does. He also senses where the Z-Fighters are a couple times during their city battle.
There isn't really another explanation that I can think of. Goten's hair has never been affected greatly by any amount of wind in the series, while Goku's hair always has. I don't really know how to explain why that is, but it is... I guess? Lol.
Even in those manga scans I posted, his hair is much more Super Saiyan 2-esque than in that promotional art, or even in the finished film. It's more defined and stiffer in both the anime and the manga than in that art or the movie.
It's impossible since the image I posted is the last second before we're done with them and the Kamehameha is relaunched, and we know Gohan never has two bangs while a Super Saiyan 2.
The movie came out one month after the chapter in which Goku became a Super Saiyan 2 for the first time. I'm no media enthusiast, but I think at that point, only the finishing touches would be the priority, as I don't think they'd wait until the final month to add in something like a character's transformation. Perhaps they had notes from Toriyama, who knows. Even if they did, they did it wrong because I just don't think that looks like SSj2 Goku. His hair is too thick which, if he was a Super Saiyan 2, wouldn't be the case. The bangs that are up around the one that's hanging down are too thick and none of them are small like they would be if he was a Super Saiyan 2. When Goku transformed in Movie 13, his hair looked like it should've, even though it was a similar situation to this. My thought is that if he really did transform here before the wind acted on him as you say, he should've had the two or three smaller bangs like every other of his appearances as a Super Saiyan 2.
It's just like the ending to Movie 8. That still has no logical explanation as well. Also, Goten and Gohan's "belts" from their clothes are also floating in the air, which wouldn't be possible unless something was acting on them. Edited by Pyrus, Jun 10 2011, 02:36 AM.
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