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'New' Movie 10 Daizenshuu Sketch; New food for thought
Topic Started: Jun 9 2011, 05:29 AM (12,912 Views)
Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

I found this, apparently it's a sketch of the final Kamehameha in movie 10 that killed Broly. What's most interesting to note is Goku and Gohan's hairstyles. While I tried arguing that it was possible Gohan and Goku turned SSj2 for the final push, it lost a lot, but, not all credibility from posts. I dropped the issue.

You'll notice Goten's hair is still very Super Saiyan and there is no indication of wind in the picture.

Posted Image

This picture is a direct frame from movie 10, before the wind kicked up:

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/1617/gokussjin2.png

I realize that this will likely be shot down again, and I'm still unsure after seeing that drawing whether or not the theory has any credibility. It might explain why LSSj Broly was so freaked out when the triple Kamehameha came at him. Especially considering MSSj Gohan and SSj Goten were pretty beat up, and Broly was already stronger than MSSj Goku as a regular SSj himself. The triple Kamehameha probably wouldn't have phased him.

One might argue that they did not know what SSj2 Goku would look like, so, couldn't put him in the movie. However, that did not stop them from putting "Giji" or "False" Super Saiyan in movie 4, which turned out not to be a false Super Saiyan at all, but, their actual interpretation of a regular SSj transformation. From the sketch, it looks like they're just copying SSj2 Gohan's hairstyle and facial expression and pasting it on Goku. Gohan in this image looks undoubtedly Super Saiyan 2, with the serious look on his face, sharply defined hair and single-large bang. Neither of their hairstyles looks "blown back" by anything. They look, well, Super Saiyan 2-esque. Goten has no effects of wind on his hair in the picture, so, that theory is largely discounted.

Likewise, with Goten, the sharp-serious look isn't as pronounced on Gohan or Goku, and his hair seems to be in place as is normal for his SSj transformation and doesn't have nearly as much definition as Goku or Gohan.

Gohan and Goku's hairstyles in this image are also present in the final frames of the Kamehameha in movie 10. What's interesting to note is that in both the final frames of movie 10 and in this picture, the wind does not appear to affect Goten, yet, it affects Goku and Gohan?

Likewise, I'm not specifically advocating the theory.

I have no idea where this image came from. I got it from this imageshack account: http://imageshack.us/g/542/030f.jpg/ . After thorough investigation, I found it to be from this link: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1652559-goku-gohan-were-ssjin-2-against-broly/ . The author claims he got it directly from Daizenshuu 6.

I also have no idea what the Japanese text says. Kamikaze, do you mind calling Herms in on this one? I doubt it will help this interesting case, but, it couldn't hurt.

Before y'all rip me a new one... again... like with what happened to that other topic, seriously take another look at this. We all thought, including myself, Gohan was MSSj vs. Broly in movie 10, until an unearthed Daizenshuu sketch proved otherwise. I never really thought Goku and Gohan went SSj2 in movie 10, but, I merely tossed the theory out there for people to take a look at. I haven't brought it up since, since I got rather ripped apart the last time around. But, this is some serious stuff if taken directly from the Daiz. At least worth a discussion.

Your thoughts

P.S. Don't kill me.

P.P.S. I'm unsure what to think about this picture. I'm not one way or the other. One of Goten's bangs does seem to be partially up, however, it could just be the art itself as the rest of Goten's hair would be blown back as well, along with Goku/Gohan's one bang if the wind was really that strong. It's only a single bang as well, so, it appears more of an artistic detail than anything else. While Goku and Gohan's hair seems firmly planted in a SSj2-like status.

P.P.P.S. If I recall correctly, a main criticism was that characters in Dragonball, upon powering up, have their hair blown back often. A few pictures were posted proving this. However, since this is a Daizenshuu sketch and not a frame from the anime or movie, this is from an entirely separate, more legitimate resource that never uses these techniques. Likewise, the argument was only applied only to Goku as Goten and Gohan were difficult or impossible to see. While in this picture, Gohan is also visible and has the exact same Super Saiyan 2-esque traits that Goku has. While similarly, Goten has none of them. One would think if the Daizenshuu sketch was mirroring that of the "powering up hair effect" it would also apply to Goten.
Edited by Sam, Jun 9 2011, 06:32 AM.
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Paikuan extreme
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i was in the minority that gohan was only ssj against broly as well, until you guys convinced me, why gohan wasnt at full power as an ssj2 shouldnt be a mystery and yet it is. Logically we can say that he Was an ssj2 due to the drawing in the movie and the excerpt from the manga. if it wasnt for the kanji mixed with the hiragana i would say it was a fake, but its worth looking into i guess.
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Posted Image



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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

It's a very interesting picture and a controversial one at that. Even if they were SSj2 though, it only helps to explain why they broke through Broly's bomb, why he was so afraid of something that 3x SSj's shot, two which are seriously wounded, wouldn't even phase him.
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Nice catch Neci. Rather odd that Goten is the only one with an regular SSJ hairstyle while Goku and Gohan turn to a one bang one. I mean Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku, that's why it's odd.


Ps: Get ready for some hate-storm bro. :D
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 05:56 AM
Nice catch Neci. Rather odd that Goten is the only one with an regular SSJ hairstyle while Goku and Gohan turn to a one bang one. I mean Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku, that's why it's odd.


Ps: Get ready for some hate-storm bro. :D
*turns on Sandstorm and puts on sunglasses*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQaBWziYvY

Let's do this ****.

At the very least, it's going to make it into Revision 2.0 of my Broly topic.
Edited by Sam, Jun 9 2011, 06:12 AM.
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Necifix
Jun 9 2011, 05:59 AM
Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 05:56 AM
Nice catch Neci. Rather odd that Goten is the only one with an regular SSJ hairstyle while Goku and Gohan turn to a one bang one. I mean Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku, that's why it's odd.


Ps: Get ready for some hate-storm bro. :D
*turns on Sandstorm and puts on sunglasses*

Let's do this ****.

At the very least, it's going to make it into Revision 2.0 of my Broly topic.
*Play's "The Ecstasy of Gold" Song*

***** got epic now.

*Walks next to Neci*
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.



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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 06:07 AM
Necifix
Jun 9 2011, 05:59 AM
Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 05:56 AM
Nice catch Neci. Rather odd that Goten is the only one with an regular SSJ hairstyle while Goku and Gohan turn to a one bang one. I mean Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku, that's why it's odd.


Ps: Get ready for some hate-storm bro. :D
*turns on Sandstorm and puts on sunglasses*

Let's do this ****.

At the very least, it's going to make it into Revision 2.0 of my Broly topic.
*Play's "The Ecstasy of Gold" Song*

***** got epic now.

*Walks next to Neci*
Lolha, I'm excited about what this picture brings to the table. Not only does it completely complement the scene from movie 10 of Goku's facial expression becoming more serious and his hair mysteriously blowing back before the "HAAAA!!!" but it also squashes most, if not all, of the arguments presented in the previous "was Gohan/Goku SSj2 in movie 10?" topic I made.

Again, not saying I completely buy into the theory, but, it just gained a ton more credibility. Just like the SSj2 Gohan theory did that was previously believed to be false, but, proven true with the Daizenshuu sketch.
Edited by Sam, Jun 9 2011, 06:14 AM.
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+ Pyrus
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I'll search Daizex and see if Herms has translated that picture. There was a huge Broly fan there a while ago that always wanted pictures like that translated, so with any luck, we won't have to wait for Herms or someone else to do it.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Kamikaze Pyro
Jun 9 2011, 06:13 AM
I'll search Daizex and see if Herms has translated that picture. There was a huge Broly fan there a while ago that always wanted pictures like that translated, so with any luck, we won't have to wait for Herms or someone else to do it.
Minus translation, your thoughts?
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Necifix
Jun 9 2011, 06:10 AM
Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 06:07 AM
Necifix
Jun 9 2011, 05:59 AM
Nusu
Jun 9 2011, 05:56 AM
Nice catch Neci. Rather odd that Goten is the only one with an regular SSJ hairstyle while Goku and Gohan turn to a one bang one. I mean Goten has the same hairstyle as Goku, that's why it's odd.


Ps: Get ready for some hate-storm bro. :D
*turns on Sandstorm and puts on sunglasses*

Let's do this ****.

At the very least, it's going to make it into Revision 2.0 of my Broly topic.
*Play's "The Ecstasy of Gold" Song*

***** got epic now.

*Walks next to Neci*
Lolha, I'm excited about what this picture brings to the table. Not only does it completely complement the scene from movie 10 of Goku's facial expression becoming more serious and his hair mysteriously blowing back before the "HAAAA!!!" but it also squashes most, if not all, of the arguments presented in the previous "was Gohan/Goku SSj2 in movie 10?" topic I made.

Again, not saying I completely buy into the theory, but, it just gained a ton more credibility. Just like the SSj2 Gohan theory did that was previously believed to be false, but, proven true with the Daizenshuu sketch.
Yes, indeed. That backs the theory with Goku and Gohan turning SSJ 2 up a lot. Not to mention it happened in the movies that one of Goku's forms were drawn wrong, take the Giji. I mean if the original sketch looked like that, and again was changed in the last minutes then I could see Goku being SSJ 2 easily.


Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.



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Found the translation. "Put forth your power! A three-man father and son Kamehameha!!"

The picture looks like a concept that wasn't yet finished. I get that impression because the three just don't seem to fit the background, especially considering the brown rope-like object in the upper left-hand corner, which isn't present in the movie itself.

I do still find that the wind is the culprit in this image, though. Goten's hair wouldn't randomly be blowing back like that unless there was something acting on it. Gohan's hair is always like that no matter what[1]. Goku's hair is never like that unless he's moving at a high rate of speed, or something (like wind) is pushing on him[2].

[1]Gohan while he's charging Dabra the second time. His bang is slanted from the force of the wind, but you get the point. This is also the same scenario when he charges Dabra for the first time.
[2]Goku flying toward Kibitoshin while Kid Boo's planet buster is behind him: His hair in one panel has one bang because of the wind, and then he gets two more smaller ones in the later panels.

While we're on the topic (sort of) of Broly's power, here's another page from the third TV anime Daizenshuu.
Quote:
 
Anime Version: Super Saiya-jin Genealogy
The strongest warrior in the universe, the Super Saiya-jin. Here we’ll profile the genealogy of the Super Saiya-jin, including characters who only appeared in the anime, and variations that appeared over the course of Super Saiya-jin evolution!!

Super Saiya-jin
Super Saiya-jin’s biggest distinguishing characteristics are the golden hair that stands up straight, and the green pupils. Also, because they are in a continuous lightly agitated state, their personality also becomes wild. This type is the first grade of Super Saiya-jin, and can be called the base for all Super Saiya-jins.

Broli-type
Broli appeared in the movies. A-type is distinguished by him not having gold hair while he’s a Super Saiya-jin. B-type is a powered up Super Saiya-jin state. He’s called the legendary Super Saiya-jin, since he loves destruction and slaughter, like the Super Saiya-jin of Saiya-jin legend. Both types are from when he fought with Goku on New Planet Vegeta. C-type is his form from when he battles Gohan and the others on Earth; he later transformed into B-type. It’s a Super Saiya-jin that’s evolved differently.

Variations
Grades 2-3 are powered up versions of the Grade 1, which Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks have the ability to transform into. Full Power time is a type where they are able to unconsciously exist in the Super Saiya-jin state, and even the wildness of their personality vanishes. Only Goku and Gohan can transform into this.

Super Saiya-jin 2
Super Saiya-jin 2’s distinguishing characteristics are the upright hair and the intense sparks. Even the docile boy Gohan become so violent that he enjoyed fighting. Gohan, Goku, and Babidi-manipulated Vegeta transform into this type.

Gohan-type
This type is also called Ultimate Gohan. While his appearance hasn’t change very much from his normal state, his power surpasses even Super Saiya-jin 2. He’s a Saiya-jin who has achieved a super transformation different from Super Saiya-jin, which puts a large strain on one’s body.

Super Saiya-jin 3
As the Super Saiya-jin that can appropriately be called the strongest, the transformation of their outward appearance is the most intense of all: their eyebrows disappear and their hair becomes long. Apart from Goku, Gotenks can also transform into this!! Aside from the Kamehameha and his other techniques from his normal form, in the movies Goku displays a special attack called the Dragon Fist.

[Freeza] So Super Saiya-jin had these sorts of types!!

I feel like I have more to add to this, but for now this is all I have.
Edited by Pyrus, Jun 9 2011, 06:39 AM.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Goten and Goku have the same exact hairstyle in SSj. Why wouldn't his be blown back like Goku's as well?

Also, in the pictures, Goku still has a second or even third bang. Only in one where he's turning is only a single bang present. Even in these situations, the "serious business" forehead markings aren't there, despite the fact that everyone's basically about to die, yet, they are in the sketches here. They are also missing the sharp definition of SSj2 hair, yet, that is present in these sketches. The bangs in this sketch are very well and firmly joined in with the rest of the hair, not like they're being blown around like the wind was blowing Goten/Gohan's hair in movie 10.

Gohan's bang is slanted by the force of the wind, but, this is post-World Tournament art style, while movie 10 and this sketch are pre-World Tournament style. If the wind was the culprit, Gohan's second smaller-bang would be blowing around in the wind and be visible, like it was when MSSj Gohan and Goten were trying to force back Broly with no avail. This picture also seems to indicate the moment before they re-launch the Kamehameha, where the wind would stop and coincidentally, when Goku was questionably SSj2.
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Here's a screencap from right before it switches to the Kamehameha being relaunched at Broly.
Posted Image
You can see Gohan does indeed have one large bang and a smaller strand beside it, disproving him being a Super Saiyan 2 at any point during the final beam struggle.
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

Well, Gohan is hard to argue but Goku? That is up for opinion, since Goten's hair dosen't change while Goku's does.
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Kamikaze Pyro
Jun 9 2011, 07:06 AM
Here's a screencap from right before it switches to the Kamehameha being relaunched at Broly.
Posted Image
You can see Gohan does indeed have one large bang and a smaller strand beside it, disproving him being a Super Saiyan 2 at any point during the final beam struggle.
Mmm. It's possible he changed at the very last second, but, that's just grasping at straws. He probably didn't have the energy to.

Goku is a bit odd, however. The wind clearly is having an effect on Gohan's second small strand, but, absolutely no effect on Goten's hair, which is the exact same as Goku's. Yet, Goku's goes all Super Saiyan-2ey?
Edited by Sam, Jun 9 2011, 08:56 AM.
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