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| Kamehameha vs Final Flash | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 1 2011, 05:25 AM (9,952 Views) | |
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Jun 1 2011, 05:25 PM Post #16 |
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thats not till his second form either, the real final flash and the big bang attack was in vegetas second form in the game. vegeta has 3 forms in tenkaichi, his first is boz vegeta, the second is cell saga vegeta, the third is buu saga vegeta, or after buu, in his "second" form because he was brought back to life. so he goes from scouter vegeta to blue jumpsuit vegeta. |
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| TrunksinSwimmingTrunks | Jun 1 2011, 06:22 PM Post #17 |
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Formerly known as daman
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On the wii Vegeta from the Android/Cell saga has Big Bang attack and final flash. Besides, doesn't he shout big bang attack when he kills Android 19? I don't know why I'm even typing this. |
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kamizake pyro is a girl? olsiw Make the old spam section viewable plz | |
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| lunar2 | Jun 1 2011, 07:38 PM Post #18 |
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why does everyone keep bringing up games? they have absolutely no impact on this. the final flash is much more powerful than the kamehameha. it's not a full power beam, like the kamehameha, it's an overpowered beam. vegeta already has an attack that matches the kamehameha, the galick gun, so why in the world would he create another one? |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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| Rockman | Jun 1 2011, 07:45 PM Post #19 |
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hoighty-toighty
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Why in the world wouldn't he create another one? Why have 1 powerful named attack when you can have 2? Mix it up a bit then. |
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| lunar2 | Jun 1 2011, 07:49 PM Post #20 |
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the point i'm trying to make is, he wasn't trying to match goku, he was trying to beat him. the final flash is a gambling move. it takes a long time to charge, and uses a huge portion of his energy. the final flash is more like a tribeam without genki than a simple kamehameha. |
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list of canon sources: the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga. list of non canon sources: everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality. for those that blindly follow word of god | |
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Jun 1 2011, 08:05 PM Post #21 |
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a simple kamehameha? LOLMAO, what are you talking about? there is no simple kamehameha, its all or nothing with that move, vegetas final flash doesnt take that long to charge, and even so what difference would it make? how could it beat a fully charged kamehameha just like that? there is no proof here, only your frustrated opinion that the final flash is a better move or more powerful. Doesnt make sense to me, if krillin learned the final flash what impact would it have? none, he has the same strength level as before, a kamehameha is all of your strength put into that blast, calling it simple makes it sound like YOU could do it. Its a signature move even trunks knows, now why is that? The final flash is vegetas version of the the more pwoerful kamehameha, no more no less, and we have brought up video games as they directly relate to how much power can be taken, there is NO difference between the video game and the cartoon when it comes to the character moves, are you a rageaholic or something? cause everytime a conversation doesnt go your way you flip. Very strange, your reasoning begind vegetas logic has no bearing on how powerful his moves are compared to others. the video game has shown wayyyyyy more proof than your angry rants. lets see, no proof? or a video game that follows the manga characters so closely down to their moves and costumes that its thoroughly enjoyable? not a thing missing from any of them. Just because tenkaichi 3 includes filler about yamcha playing pro ball doesnt mean its non cannon IMO. But only the tenkaichi series, everything else is crap in my eyes. Leave your blood pressure alone, without proof of your claims getting worked up will change nothing. So...expalin to us WHY the final flash is so much more powerful than the most powerful characters sig move? little bit too much vegeta love maybe? And when i say more powerful kamehameha i mean the improved one goku learned over the years as his strength grew, im actually in the opinion that in fact the galic gun is still vegetas most powerful move, even baby used it against ssj4 goku. The super galic gun is something else, although the final flash is something to be dealt with, it is in fact just a progression of the galic gun which he isnt seen to use quite often after him and gokus initial fight. Galic gun? one hand, final flash? two...not much diff. Yuore trying to make it sound like the kamehameha is the only beam goku can fire. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Jun 1 2011, 08:10 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jun 1 2011, 08:10 PM Post #22 |
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The Galick Gun is Vegeta's version of the Kamehameha. Gyarik-ho [Gyarik Cannon] First Appearance: Chapter 231 Category: ki manipulation People: Vegeta Special Characteristics: Vegeta’s version of the Kamehameha. The difference between it and the Kamehameha is the hand position when shooting out the ki. He thrusts out the palms of his hand towards his opponent, and fires it as if pushing out the ki. The ki put out from the two palms then becomes a single powerful current. When Vegeta used this, Goku was able to negate it for the first time ever with a Kaio-Ken x4 Kamehameha. Vegeta’s power at the time was that strong. (Daizenshuu 2, p.211) Final Flash First Appearance: Chapter 384 Category: ki manipulation People: Vegeta Special Characteristics: Super Vegeta’s super special attack. Concentrating all the ki in his body into both his hands, he fires it at his opponent. As he concentrates his ki, his hands enter a state of electrical discharge, distorting the surrounding atmosphere and drawing everything in. Its rate of energy depletion is high, and it can only be fired in a state surpassing the limits of Super Saiya-jin. It has enough force to easily destroy the Earth, and Vegeta is able to narrow its attack range by aiming it. This technique blew away the upper right portion of Cell’s body. (Daizenshuu 2, p.214) Kamehameha First Appearance: Chapter 14 Category: ki manipulation People: Kame-sennin, Son Goku, Son Gohan, Yamcha, Jacky Chun, Krillin, Son Gohan (grandpa), Tenshinhan, Cell, Majin Buu (good, evil, pure) Special Characteristics: A ki manipulation technique thought up by Kame-sennin. It is a technique that condenses ki into one point and then fires it. The technique’s force changes based on the strength of its user’s ki, and if mastered it also becomes possible to control its force. Son Goku soon picked up this technique, perhaps because of his ki training with Son Gohan (grandpa), or perhaps due to his special characteristics as a Saiya-jin. Tenshinhan also easily copied it. From this, it can be said that it is possible to use the Kamehameha merely by being able to control one’s ki. (Daizenshuu 2, p.202/Daizenshuu 4, p.111) Anime: The first person to use it in the movies is Kame-sennin in “The Legend of Shenron”. Goku picked it up after seeing Kame-sennin’s technique (Daizenshuu 6, p.16). In “A Dangerous Pair!! Super Warriors Can’t Rest”, Goku, Gohan, and Goten implement a three-person Father-Son Kamehameha. It obliterated the formidable enemy Broli (Daizenshuu 6, p.124). In “The Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta”, a fake Goku that appeared in Janenba’s hand fired one (Daizenshuu 6, p.142). ~Deflection First Appearance: Chapter 118 People: Tenshinhan Special Characteristics: A technique where by judging the timing of a Kamehameha’s approach, he fires a kiai to deflect the Kamehameha back at his opponent. He used this on Yamcha’s Kamehameha during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai Feint~ First Appearance: Chapter 309 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: Used in order to fool Freeza. Firing two Kamehamehas underwater in preparation, he sends them flying up into the air. As Freeza was distracted by them, Goku landed a direct attack. ~From the Feet First Appearance: Chapter 186 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: A technique where he hires it from his feet like rocket propulsion, thrusting him towards his opponent. This leaves both his hands free, enabling him to unleash various attacks. (Daizenshuu 2, p.209) ~Max Power First Appearance: Chapter 51 People: Jacky Chun Special Characteristics: A technique where he must fully use his muscles in order to fire it, due to the powerful destructive force it puts out. It has enough power to destroy the moon. Rapid-Fire~ First Appearance: Chapter 270 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: A technique where he continuously fires Kamehamehas. Only those who have undergone intense training can unleash this. He used this to raise his own battle rating while in his spaceship going to Planet Namek. ~Return First Appearance: Chapter 47 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: A technique where a Kamehameha is erased by another Kamehameha. Goku instantly fired this to counter Jacky Chun’s Kamehameha. (Daizenshuu 2, p.204/Daizenshuu 4, p.111) Shunkan-ido~ First Appearance: Chapter 401 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: An attack where he uses Shunkan-ido to suddenly appear before his opponent and then fires a Kamehameha, giving them no time to dodge. With this technique, he blew away the top half of Cell’s body. Super~ First Appearance: Chapter 185 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: A Kamehameha powered up through his training under Kami-sama in the Heavenly Realm. It has enough power to deflect Piccolo’s powerful Makosen. (Daizenshuu 2, p.209) Turning~ First Appearance: Chapter 157 People: Son Goku Special Characteristics: A technique where he fires a Kamehameha, then uses the ki tail left in his hands to manipulate it. Goku used this against Piccolo Daimao. (Daizenshuu 4, p.112) Edited by Pyrus, Jun 1 2011, 08:12 PM.
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Jun 1 2011, 10:21 PM Post #23 |
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nice kamikaze, it doesnt say defiitively which is better, but it definitely shows that liking it as a move is a matter of preference and not fact. I actually like the final flash and use it quite often as vegeta is one of my favorite characters to use, i dont have a pref for either move anyways but i just had to say something when lunar kept saying its more powerful than a pitiful kamehameha. The point was proved about how long it takes to charge and fire, it also explains why vegeta is so adept at using it in his second form. He's a hell of alot stronger. Thanx for the info. trunks should be on that list of uses for the kame move as well, ive seen him use it more than once. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Jun 1 2011, 10:23 PM.
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| + Pyrus | Jun 1 2011, 10:27 PM Post #24 |
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When has Trunks used it? I've only ever seen him use it in Movie 11. |
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| Super Gohan | Jun 2 2011, 02:41 AM Post #25 |
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If I'm understanding the manner in which the Final Flash is executed, correctly, it should have an upper hand over the Kamehameha. Since Vegeta can manipulate the attack's range to a more precise point, whereas the range for the Kamehameha's beam would be much wider, the Ki utilized for the Final Flash would be stronger in comparison even if they were at the same level of power when they fired it. The reason being, Ki is made more powerful when condensed to a smaller area. As seen with such attacks like the Destructo Disc/Kienzan. |
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| The Saiyan God | Jun 2 2011, 02:07 PM Post #26 |
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Not true. Even if the Final Flash is a more powerful attack it won't overpower a Kamehameha fired by an opponent who is equal in strength. The reason behind this is from what we have seen from the Final Flash, it's a one shot move. Vegeta gathers his ki in his hand an releases all of it at once. Now in a beam struggle it may initially push back the Kamehameha but remember that the Kamehameha is always connected to the user. So even if the beam is initially pushed back, then also the user can just add some more ki to it. Thus it can overpower the Final Flash. So to put it simply the Final Flash may be a stronger attack but the Kamehameha has the advantage in a beam struggle. |
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Jun 2 2011, 03:04 PM Post #27 |
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But you just said the fighters are of equal power right? It wouldn't matter for Vegeta to hold the final flash all he would need is one fire of it. It's more powerful then the Kamehameha so a opponent of equal power would lose. Also I don't recall where you get that the final flash can't be controlled to push back. |
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Jun 2 2011, 05:01 PM Post #28 |
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what you just described was the kamehameha the final flash isnt concentrated in a small area its a two handed push. The kamehameha is whats reduced to a small area, didnt you read what kamikaze put up? why he agrees with you i dont know. But its obvious the kamehameha is a more concentrated and useable blast, it depends on the strength of the user, all i see here is people attempting to hax vegetas move. It even say vegeta himself cant use it with being higher than ssj level. trunks used the kamehameha in gt as well, not just movie 11. what difference does it make? he still knows it. whereas vegeta has NEVER used it, he had the galic gun an then developed the final flash, the final flash is an all or nothing move, a true master of the kamehameha can even add strength to the blast and direct it as they please. all the evidence of how much more useful and pointedly powerful the kamehameha is as a technique and final move. How can a one shot blast so easily over power a blast thats continuous? even if they were on equal strength the kamehamehas focus alone is worth more. Like i said, the final flash is good for a finishing move only, even the daizo says this. The kamehameha is more technical, more useful and can be trained to use over and over, something only krillin and goku have learned to do. to say that it hands down beats the kamehameha isnt being very objective, there has never been any proof provided that would even come close to saying it would. Except for the strength in the user, thats it. People insisting vegeta is on gokus level still makes me laugh. I respect vegeta a hell of a lot, i do, but even HE admitted hes leagues behind goku when it comes to adapting different ki manipulating skills. Despite everyones opinion (which i respect) im more inclined to believe vegeta. never have i seen a full power head on kamehameha defeated by anyone but broly and super 17. The final flash would lose in the end if the user isnt strong enough to deflect it and push it back. Them being on equal strength? if vegeta got th speed advantage then yes it would win and since it seems that its ALL of his power at once then yes i can see it. But against goku who is naturally stronger? it just wouldnt work. Otherwise the final flash vanquishes anything or anyone. Against goku? not gonna happen...hes deflected alot more powerful blasts with larger gaps in between them than vegeta has, including vegetas move. If vegeta was more powerful than goku it would make complete sense, but you simply cant hax vegetas move and say it will defeat gokus kamehameha for no reason. I wish they could have gotten a better fight in ssj2 with no majin buu distraction and see who really comes out on top, majin vegeta or fpssj2 goku who has already achieved ssj3. it would be interesting if goku wasnt distracted with wanting to fight majin buu. Crazy fool. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Jun 2 2011, 05:11 PM.
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| Super Gohan | Jun 2 2011, 08:32 PM Post #29 |
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The Final Flash was connected to the user as well, it's how Vegeta steered it away from destroying the Earth when attacking Cell. The only reason someone could add more Ki to the Kamehameha is if they weren't at full power when they fired it (Kaio-ken was an exception since it borrowed from their dormant capacities), so if they both fired at full power it wouldn't really matter.
If you look at the Final Flash against Cell, Vegeta condenses the Ki, thinning the attack's range: ![]() By doing this, the Ki at the site of impact is far more concentrated, which would increase its penetrative power, whereas in the Kamehameha, the Ki is dispersed through a wider surface. Cell was able to sense the amount of Ki Vegeta was charging into the attack, so his shock wasn't due to the power output. The flash of light just appeared to blind him, so he wasn't able to anticipate the attack and be fully aware of its properties. If it were just a normal beam he should've been able to tank it, considering the difference in their powers, which is why he was so confident beforehand.
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| Optimus Banana | Jun 2 2011, 08:51 PM Post #30 |
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It depends how much the final flashs multiplier. If I recal, in the fight with raditz, Goku's kamehameha wave was 3x Goku's powerlevel. It may have changed but that's what I go by. It was said that the final flash is all the users power so I think goku would win IMO.
Edited by Optimus Banana, Jun 2 2011, 08:52 PM.
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