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Who was stronger, Androids 19 & 20 or Frieza?
Topic Started: Apr 30 2011, 08:16 PM (6,090 Views)
Destiny
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AllStarSuperman
May 1 2011, 02:40 AM
It's one year from the end of the frieza saga and Trunks' arrival from the future. Being a saiyan prince and desiring the power of the SSJ, it's 99.9% likely Vegeta was training that entire year. Piccolo was probably training that year before Trunks' showed up as well.
So what makes you think Vegeta got past Piccolo then? If he was below him before and they both trained?
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Doctor Know
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Don't forget the last zenkai Vegeta received after Krillin shot him and Dende healed him. Vegeta was able track some of 4th form Frieza's movements and see move Frieza executed that Piccolo, Gohan or Krillin could see. Recall Piccolo was very surprised at Vegeta's power increase before he engaged Frieza.
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Destiny
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AllStarSuperman
May 1 2011, 02:51 AM
Don't forget the last zenkai Vegeta received after Krillin shot him and Dende healed him. Vegeta was able track some of 4th form Frieza's movements and see move Frieza executed that Piccolo, Gohan or Krillin could see. Recall Piccolo was very surprised at Vegeta's power increase before he engaged Frieza.
That is true then. So that gave him the bump up above Vegeta?
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lunar2
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1. it is never stated anywhere that saiyans gain power faster than other races.

2. the stronger you get, the slower you improve, meaning that weak people tend to catch up with strong people.

3. piccolo has already been shown to far outstrip goku's improvement, given the same training:

goku goes from 416 to "over 8,000" in 78 days on king kai's planet. that's a roughly 20x increase.

piccolo goes from 2,500 to far stronger than nail in 6 days on king kai's planet. nail is 42,000, so going by the 30% rule, piccolo is 54,600 minimum. that's nearly a 22x increase in 6 days, compared to goku's 20x increase in 78 days.

sorry, but namekians tend to grow faster than saiyans, not the other way around.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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+ Pyrus
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AllStarSuperman
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8283310&t=8285746
It's one year from the end of the frieza saga and Trunks' arrival from the future. Being a saiyan prince and desiring the power of the SSJ, it's 99.9% likely Vegeta was training that entire year. Piccolo was probably training that year before Trunks' showed up as well.

It was one year plus the 130 days between Namek and wishing Tenshinhan back. Piccolo and Vegeta were both stated to be training that whole time.
AllStarSuperman
http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8283302&t=8285746
That's a big "IF" Lunar. Given that Piccolo's PL was from 1 million-1.5 million when he fought Frieza. Frieza's max is 120 million. So when he fought Piccolo he was using only 1% of his full power initially. It's pretty farfetched when you think about Piccolo's power level jumping from 1.5 to over 120 million in a four year period. Not even the Saiyans grow that fast. Also think about Goku's PL when he showed up to fight Frieza. It was 3 million. Piccolo had half the strength Goku did in the Frieza arc. That difference in their power levels probably remain unchanged or widened from the Frieza to the android saga; since saiyans grow alot faster than other races. That doesn't included the 50x multiplier for the SSJ's.

Remember Gero built his androids with no knowledge of the SSJ form (16-18 just ended up that way with their infinite energy cores). Without question 19 and 20 are the weakest models. I put them between 2-10 million. Around Frieza's 2nd form and presumably his 3rd form. Vegeta testified to Trunks neither of them were a challenge to him, and he found the fight boring. Also recall Vegeta's remarks before he transformed in to SSJ. He found the only thing to be concerned about with them were their energy absorbing techniques. Vegeta was going for shock and aw in an attempt to instill fear in the androids and intimidate them to his SSJ strength. Piccolo was able to dominate 20, despite having a base power level weaker than both Goku and Vegeta.

Frieza stomps both 19 and 20 into the ground

That still doesn't explain why Piccolo was so confident in fighting someone he thought could defeat Trunks.
Edited by Pyrus, May 1 2011, 04:15 AM.
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Perfect Frieza X
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Yeah, I'm almost 100% sure Frieza would dominate both of em. Especially if it's Mecha Frieza.
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NeoSSayajin
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If the Androids were around the 1.000.000 - 10.000.000, 19 wouldnt have pested heart virus affected SSJ1 Goku which was around 300.000.000 but decaying due to his sickness.

I have the Androids between post Namek SSJ1 Goku and weaker SSJ1 Goku Android Saga, around the 170.000.000 and 220.000.000. Going by this, they are still stronger than Frieza in Namek and later with cybernetic enhancements.

My hypothesis for Piccolo having that big increase is that his fusion with Nail (another elite Namek warrior) made him earn more capacity.
Edited by NeoSSayajin, May 11 2011, 12:38 AM.
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lunar2
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or, he was simply training with ssj goku, as was shown on a manga cover, iirc. stronger opponents yield faster increases.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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