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why do people say vegeta cheated to become ss4?
Topic Started: Apr 30 2011, 03:07 AM (5,757 Views)
dbz123
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he is a full blooded saiyan, but lost his tail. he used the blutz waves to grow it back and since there was no moon, he used the blutz waves as a moon too...how is that cheating?

the only reason goku was ss4 was because he was a kid again
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Destiny
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He asked he's wife to do it for him. Might as well have dyed he's hair red.
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Frankie
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Yeah, it is kind of cheating. A true man would except his fate, tail or no tail.

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Damaged
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Dragonball GT for you, twisting the plot and coming up with excuses to get some progression happening,
- I don't know how to paint black skies blue.
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lunar2
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he didn't cheat any more than goku did. i guess he should have made a wish on shenron to regrow his tail, instead. that would have been so much fairer. /sarcasm.

really, though, vegeta deserved it more than goku. he worked harder than goku ever did, he never had his tail root removed (meaning they could have just had him grow the damn thing back), and he was naturally able to control the oozaru form, something no other saiyan could do.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Paikuan extreme
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buzzer on that one, saiyans with the proper training can control their oozaru form. They arent all unable to be stopped. vegeta had obviously had some comfortability in his oozaru form through practice.

You could say vegeta cheated but in the end the result was the same, and there was no guarantee he could control his golden oozaru form. being born and RAISED as a saiyan had its advantages for vegeta, obviously at saw them as two sides to the same coin,

Goku didnt work as hard as vegeta? ok...thats makes no sense, just because Goku had access to certain supernatural elements as guardian of the earth doesnt mean he didnt work hard. Since he was a kid goku has built the relationships he had developed over the years, even king kai. While dead he was allowed to just hang out on kais planet and watch the earth. Both in their own way, did the two saiyans develop what they had, but seriously, without gokus discoveries and perfectly honed battle sense? vegeta wouldnt be anywhere near where he ended up. Vegeta taught goku how to be a saiyan, and goku taught vegeta the true elements of power and responsibility. You cant hate goku for being a concentrated hard worker and all around people person.
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lunar2
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it was stated in the buu arc, during the fight between goku and majin vegeta, that vegeta underwent more special training than goku, but goku's greater talent kept him one step ahead. and that the gap between them would never change. there, stated in the manga: vegeta works harder than goku, just to keep pace with him.

also, only vegeta ever controlled his oozaru form. that wasn't a matter of practice, that was a natural ability. no other saiyan even remembers what happens when they are oozaru (except bardock).
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Destiny
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I think the reason we belive Vegeta "cheated" was that he hadn't reached SSJ3 form before becoming a SSJ4. Goku had. So it makes he's process which could be agrued as "Cheating" less bad as he had reached all three forms before it and had help reaching this new form. While Vegeta on the other hand had just jumped over a form went straight to SSJ4. This is similar to Gotenks going straight to SSJ3 or Vegeito* and Gogeta both going SSJ right after fusion.



*Vegito did go base in the anime though in the manga is seen going SSJ instantly after fusion.
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Damaged
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You're comparing two skills with one another, physical and Intellectual.

Quote:
 
it was stated in the buu arc, during the fight between goku and majin vegeta, that vegeta underwent more special training than goku, but goku's greater talent kept him one step ahead. and that the gap between them would never change. there, stated in the manga: vegeta works harder than goku, just to keep pace with him.


Vegeta trains harder because he trains for himself and is self centered, Goku looks for the ones around him which Vegeta never sought to untill the end of Dragonball Z. It was one of the main morals of the Dragonball series. The comparison you're both trying to make is invalid when it dosen't matter in the end if it comes to who trained the hardest.

- I don't know how to paint black skies blue.
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Nusu
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Piccolo Daimao > Piccolo Jr.

He did cheat.
Edited by Nusu, Apr 30 2011, 06:09 AM.
Once upon a time, there used to be a signature. Then it got lame, and now I'm out of options for a new one.



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Damaged
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And your argument to why he cheated and how it was cheating in comparison to the rest?
- I don't know how to paint black skies blue.
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Destiny
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.da ma G ed
Apr 30 2011, 06:08 AM
You're comparing two skills with one another, physical and Intellectual.

Quote:
 
it was stated in the buu arc, during the fight between goku and majin vegeta, that vegeta underwent more special training than goku, but goku's greater talent kept him one step ahead. and that the gap between them would never change. there, stated in the manga: vegeta works harder than goku, just to keep pace with him.


Vegeta trains harder because he trains for himself and is self centered, Goku looks for the ones around him which Vegeta never sought to untill the end of Dragonball Z. It was one of the main morals of the Dragonball series. The comparison you're both trying to make is invalid when it dosen't matter in the end if it comes to who trained the hardest.

Not True.

Vegeta was self centered up to a certain point in DBZ. Not during the end though. I think he give up he's self centered ways during the time of the Cell Games. Also during the fight with Kid Buu he realizes Goku having always been ahead of him in power. He notes that he had a family because he saw that Goku did it for the "ones around him". Though I do agree he was a self centered person for most of DBZ.
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lunar2
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.da ma G ed
Apr 30 2011, 06:08 AM
You're comparing two skills with one another, physical and Intellectual.

Quote:
 
it was stated in the buu arc, during the fight between goku and majin vegeta, that vegeta underwent more special training than goku, but goku's greater talent kept him one step ahead. and that the gap between them would never change. there, stated in the manga: vegeta works harder than goku, just to keep pace with him.


Vegeta trains harder because he trains for himself and is self centered, Goku looks for the ones around him which Vegeta never sought to untill the end of Dragonball Z. It was one of the main morals of the Dragonball series. The comparison you're both trying to make is invalid when it dosen't matter in the end if it comes to who trained the hardest.

it really doesn't matter what you think, now does it? it's stated in the manga that vegeta trains harder, and goku has greater talent. simple as that. there is no reasoning to it, no working around it. vegeta trains harder than goku, end of story.
list of canon sources:

the DB manga, and the Dr. Slump manga as it applies to the crossover during the rra saga.

list of non canon sources:

everything else, regardless of origin, format, or quality.

for those that blindly follow word of god
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Damaged
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Which was the point i was making. If both characters had no personality and emotion, Vegeta would win. It's all about what drives them to keep going and fight for.
- I don't know how to paint black skies blue.
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Destiny
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lunar2
Apr 30 2011, 06:14 AM
.da ma G ed
Apr 30 2011, 06:08 AM
You're comparing two skills with one another, physical and Intellectual.

Quote:
 
it was stated in the buu arc, during the fight between goku and majin vegeta, that vegeta underwent more special training than goku, but goku's greater talent kept him one step ahead. and that the gap between them would never change. there, stated in the manga: vegeta works harder than goku, just to keep pace with him.


Vegeta trains harder because he trains for himself and is self centered, Goku looks for the ones around him which Vegeta never sought to untill the end of Dragonball Z. It was one of the main morals of the Dragonball series. The comparison you're both trying to make is invalid when it dosen't matter in the end if it comes to who trained the hardest.

it really doesn't matter what you think, now does it? it's stated in the manga that vegeta trains harder, and goku has greater talent. simple as that. there is no reasoning to it, no working around it. vegeta trains harder than goku, end of story.
Then that begs the question of "How do you define "Talent"?"
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